F.E.V. Contagious?

[SDMVersion3]

Okay, I feel stupid.

I need to play more Fallout.

I dunno why you feel stupid, as we all agree that you're right...

[Sebastian]

I had a slightly different take on FEV.

My impression of FEV is that for the most part it's gone. It was released, spread, did it's thing and then burnt out. Mostly.

There are still places where the virus flourishes and hasn't died out. As you can see from the game, the Enclave is keeping the virus alive. There were other pockets, too, that the virus still had enough "food" to live.

Mostly though it's gone from places like Vault City, Klamath, NCR, etc...

- FEV (Forced Evolutionary Virus) explains the more grievous mutations in the wasteland (the Master, the Master's pets such as the floaters and centaurs, super mutants, Harold)

This above was mentioned previously. We know that mutants are sterile, like Marcus for example, so we know that genetically they can't reproduce their contamination. But what if, after being exposed and effected by FEV that the FEV does all it can and then *POOF* it's gone. You have a super mutant that has been genetically altered by FEV to it's fullest extent. Since it can't be altered any further, the virus has nothing to do and dies.

FEV is not a sexually transmitted disease. It is an airborne contagon or it spreads in it's liquid form by contact with the skin (the VATS)

SOOO yes, you can basically screw to your hearts content. You're not going to get FEV. However, there are PA STDs ....

[Stainless]

I'm so tempted to whip out biology shit on you....

And what the hell. It's 12:45am. I have to start remembering this crap anyway next week so why not get a headstart

There were other pockets, too, that the virus still had enough "food" to live.

A virus isn't a living thing. For it to last it would need to go into dormacy (thus no flourishing) or it would need enough cellular material to continually replicate.

Mostly though it's gone from places like Vault City, Klamath, NCR, etc...

From what I recall the bombing of the Glow or whatever it was released the FEV into the area. Given 80 years and it replicating in living tissue I'd expect it to still be present in most areas like Vault City, etc.

This above was mentioned previously. We know that mutants are sterile, like Marcus for example, so we know that genetically they can't reproduce their contamination. But what if, after being exposed and effected by FEV that the FEV does all it can and then *POOF* it's gone. You have a super mutant that has been genetically altered by FEV to it's fullest extent. Since it can't be altered any further, the virus has nothing to do and dies.

Heres the thing about a virus. It latches itself onto your cell then injects its own coding into your cell. This coding then starts changing the production order of proteins into making more and more little buggers of the virus until the cell can no longer contain them. The viruses then leave the cell and infect others. A virus just does not go *POOF* and gone. A virus is in fact, insanly difficult to get rid of. Ever gotton a cold sore? Noticed how once you've had one you might get another one a couple of months down the track for no apprent reason? It's because it's virus related. Viruses aren't affected by Anti-biotics, unlike Bacterial infections and so are difficult to treat. Finally, a virus cannot die, as it isn't living.

Well that was fun. Burnt 15minutes of my life. I hope you've learnt something.

[Blane]

Excuse my newness to this forum lark, but if FEV was released into the atmosphere and now pretty much everyone is infected (apart from say any unopened vault's that are left) wouldn't everyone in acordance with the effect of FEV be immune to allmost all forms of illness and have a much greater resistance to radiation. If so why does the village elder say there are sick children?

[Stainless]

Well a pretty good reason why this won't happen could be mutation. Cold/flu can repeatidly infect you (ones a virus, the others bacterial....I can't remember which). Mainly because of it;s continual mutation against the medicine used against it. This is also true in Malaria.

I'd assume that the FEV probibly would give you a hefty amount of resistence about getting sick, but I doubt it'd make you flat out invcincible to it. You'd expect that bacteria and viruses would also alter through mutation to bypass the FEV enhanced immune system. Happens these days with anti-biotic immune bacteria.

[Blane]

Sorry about this I have read the Glow holodisk's and they seem to surgest that the FEV changed a humans genetic structure so that infection by a naturaly occurring virus was impossable, and that even a man made virus was unlikely to be able to breach the cell wall and therefore replicate. It also seem's to surgest that humans once exposed would nolonger be plagued with genetic disorders because the RNA and DNA would be copied with much greater accuracy and have rudundent copies of itself. Any of that sound about right?

[Stainless]

if the DNA was replicated with greater accuracy it'd explain why everyone looked the same in Fallout :p

Thing is we need those DNA fallices (that even a word?) for genetic variation. Things tend to die out when they're all identical genetically wise. Cheetahs a testiment to this. If one gets sick you can practically wipe out their entire species.

Increased RNA accuracy? Main thing I can think is more efficient protein creation. Don't use RNA for much else.

Virus immune cells would be an interesting concept. It'd attest it stopping viruses in an increased faster acting immune system, having the ability to irradicate the virus before it has a chance to infect a cell.

[jetbaby]

Thing is we need those DNA fallices (that even a word?)

Are you looking for "fallacies"?

[Stainless]

no idea. Word I'm looking for is like failures. If Fallacies is it then yeah, I was looking for that word.

[Blane]

I don't really know much about biology just the elementry stuff, but i was making asumptions from the glow holodisks and what i've picked up from my interest in science in general. As far as RNA is concerned all i knew was it controlled protien formation, then thoes protiens made up cells so if the RNA did it's job better, consequently our cells would be constructed without faults and with the FEV improvments inplace. A much better human all round.

[SDMVersion3]

There were other pockets, too, that the virus still had enough "food" to live.

A virus isn't a living thing. For it to last it would need to go into dormacy (thus no flourishing) or it would need enough cellular material to continually replicate.

Well, now, no. A virus is a living thing, in that it becomes your cells, which are very much alive, and thus is fed on the same source of nutrition that your cells are.

Thus, a virus stays alive until the host has been bled dry and for a short time afterwards.

This is all assuming we're talking normal viruses, as there are some ususal ones out there.

In any case, Stainless is mostly right, and it is fallicies, however it's spelt, which yes, does mean failure.

In summation, Stainless pwn joo.

[Franz Schubert]

A virus is a living thing, in that it becomes your cells, which are very much alive, and thus is fed on the same source of nutrition that your cells are.

You have no clue what you're talking about. Since I paid attention four years ago in Freshman Biology, I'll try to explain it to you. A virus's entire body can be thought of as a "container" for the DNA of the virus. The way a virus propagates itself is that it attatches itself to a cell, and injects its DNA into the cell. This DNA "takes over" the host cell. The DNA is programmed to use the cell's resources to create new viruses (each of which contain the viral DNA). Eventually, the viruses all break out through the cell wall. That's how they reproduce.

Keep in mind, viruses aren't "alive". They have no cells of their own, and in fact I believe they consist entirely of protein-compounds, except for the DNA.

[SDMVersion3]

A bunch of stuff.

All of what you said is true. But, it's basically what I meant to say. I know a virus(an atypical one) is d/rna, and I know that it infiltrates cells. But many, in fact I would hazard to guess most, virii do NOT destroy their host cells. They do indeed transform them, and they do indeed utilize said cell for reproductive purposes, but in most cases, it is only destroyed when the cell cannot sustain the virii reconstruction any longer. Some do this at a rate that is very fast, but others, such as the ones responsible for certain liver and stomach ulcers and scleroses (sp), do this over a long period of time, infecting so many cells that entire organs begin to decay. This isn't a pop in and pop out operation and the cells of the organ in question are very much kept alive to replicate the virus.

As well, sometimes, a virus does not immediatly begin to replicate. It can, instead, lay dormant for days, or even weeks, until it finds a cell it finds more appealing. For example, white blood cells, which generate antiviral strands of agressive rna, are a popular target for many virii, such as the HIV virus, because they are already set up and optimized for genetic recoding, thus, the virus simply needs to jump in and make sure it's code is the one being copied stamped and delivered. In this case, the virus lays in a host cell for as long as possible, sometimes killing said cell if it cannot find an applicable target.

In any case; I'm notorious for talking out my ass, and I don't really remember much of biochemistry, but in any case, I don't think either of us is really wrong, per se, as much as it is a simple difference of wording.

[Kashluk]

Keep in mind, viruses aren't "alive". They have no cells of their own, and in fact I believe they consist entirely of protein-compounds, except for the DNA.

Yup, what's pretty much all I remember from my 8th grade biology classes. A ridicilously (?) small capsule that holds one, almost mechanical, purpose => to spread onward.

And by the way, I know HIV doesn't have much to do with FEV, but I'll ask this anyway: Isn't the reason why HIV "targets" white cells, simply that it destroyes the body's immunity system? Then again, I have no idea how or why it does that, but that's the image I've (somehow) got stuck in my head.

[Phias]

AIDS slowly breaks down the body's immune system, effectively killing the host. So yes, you were correct.

[SDMVersion3]

Isn't the reason why HIV "targets" white cells, simply that it destroyes the body's immunity system? Then again, I have no idea how or why it does that, but that's the image I've (somehow) got stuck in my head.

That would imply that it's intelligent. It doesn't go in there with a plan, it just waits and sees a cell with capablities it likes and utilizes it to it's own advantage.

That it breaks down the immunoresponse is a mere sideeffect.

[Kashluk]

Yay, that makes a lot more sense. Duh.

[Sebastian]

I've been away and haven't be back to follow this topic. But let's see ...

I'm no biology major, that's obvious, and pehaps I didn't quite explain things the way I wanted to. So using some of the context of what I've just learned, let's see if I can give a better perspective on my opionions on this.

Some viruses die when they run out of genetic material to alter. Many viruses are programmed to replicate themselves within a certain time frame.

The point I was trying to make was that FEV was released and went out and started altering as much life as it could come into contact with. After a while, parts of the virus that couldn't find cells to alter died.

FEV that did find a host would change the host to its new genetic pattern. Eventually, assuming the victim survived the process, all of the cells in that creatures body would be altered. With no new cells with which to alter, the virus would eventually "run out of steam" so to speak.

It's kinda scary to realize how much of my High School and College biology I've actually forgotten. Then again, I'm a computer geek, not a Biologist.

Sebastian of the Wastes

[Franz Schubert]

Isn't the reason why HIV "targets" white cells, simply that it destroyes the body's immunity system? Then again, I have no idea how or why it does that, but that's the image I've (somehow) got stuck in my head.

That's actually a good question. I know different viruses are programmed to do different things. For instance all viruses are programmed to infect specific types of cells. Obviously this is coded somewhere in the viral DNA, because when the DNA replicates the virus, it continues its "mission".

[Flaser]

First things first - what I think I should definitly add is virsuses have no whatsoever conscience - not in the moral aspect. Simply put - they don't think or have any whatsoever acting on theri own part.

They are in a dormant form vrapped up in some way - outside effects like acid, heat, radiation can destroy the wrap and destroy or alter the virus.

In active form (once inside a living organism) the container can attach itself to a cell - however this is the tricky part. The container is just lucky to be able to latch onto some cells as a twist of evolution and fate.

That's why some viruses seem to "pick" their target - they can't pick. They just drive into whatever they can dive into.

As for FEV - I remeber their Holotapes quite well.

It is not a simple virus - I may even go as far as that it wasn't a self-replicating virus.

Why?

It created a DNA - quadraple helix, crating a copy-protection (and metabolism) twice as strong as the original. Think of it as merging two DNA-s.
So instead adding new stuff - which it may do - it primarly refurbishes the genetic setup of the cell. I have no clue how it could do it (some super-enzym that reproduces mitosis (cell division) than halts the process in a critical phase where the quadraple can be achieved?)

It could use a variant of the gene theraphy methods they experiment with nowadays - take a virus with a great infection factor and low human resistance. Brain Wash ! - you take out it's actual content and replace it with you own genetic code. Voila, the gene transmitter!

FEV could be a manufactured virus, or a virus that is created by infecting another virus (pretty weird, not too likely) at extreme conditions...or it may only be able to replicate in bacteroids that exist in the extreme conditions of the vet (more likely).

FEV can still infect a person, but it won't be able to replicate, so for 100% mutation a huge dose is needed.

What was reliesed into the Wasteland is the container virus - however since FEV and it had the same shell it acted as a vaccination adding some degree of natural resistance to Wastedvellers. (AFAIK know this shell vaccination was used several times already).