ripping on fot

[Yossarian]

I don't know if this really belongs into this thread, but I want to speak out for the RL weapons in FOT. <omygodomygodpleasedontflamemeomygod>

Like 99% of those who bought FOT, I expected and wished for more roleplaying than I got. One of the very few aspects that let me customize my characters were the huge number of weapons...If there would have been "generic assault rifle", "generic light pistol", "generic heavy pistol", "generic shotgun" instead of the various weapons, FOT would haven been an even poorer game. One of the few highlights of the game was getting the AK, a dream nursed since FO1 finally come true. On the other hand, there were squaddies who HAD to have the M16, the Steyr or the police shotgun. In a way, the equipment a character carries makes him as unique as his choices during the hgame or his general makeup. Well, that's at least the way it should be....

Concerning the can of worms aka weapons stats: as a game designer, I would not spend one minute of verifying my stats with the real/ existing weapons. I'd differ them in small ways to make the choice interesting for the gamer who has a certain image of the character he wants to play, and if the gunnut came knocking because "those stats don't fit with reality" I would tell them to get a life.

As to "modern weapons don't fit the FO-setting": FO1 had a full-automatic shotgun as well as a sniper rifle. I see no problem with putting their real life counterparts into the game.

I would hate it to see the variety of guns to be reduced in FO3, and I would like to be able to roam the wasteland with an AK in the next installment.

Finally: reintroduce the sawnoff shotgun, please...

[OnTheBounce]

One of the very few aspects that let me customize my characters were the huge number of weapons...If there would have been "generic assault rifle", "generic light pistol", "generic heavy pistol", "generic shotgun" instead of the various weapons, FOT would haven been an even poorer game.

What purpose was their to the huge weapons catalogue? After Mission 2 you had enough AKs to equip all of your short-range fighters w/something that out-performed any SMG and had plentiful ammo. While I had my snipers equipped w/an SMG as a backup weapon (UZIs at first, then on to MP5s) that was actually a decision that hampered them. Yes, I did get a kick out of having Stitch running around w/a Scorpion for most of the game. No that wasn't a huge issue to me.

Besides, we're not talking about having weapons called "generic light pistol", rather it's things like "9mm Pistol", then the description goes on to list a fictional model and a small blurb about its capabilities. (Preferably not the history of it, since this would be unknown to the player, although we have suggested having multiple, tailored descs for items based on the player's skills.)

In short: the FoT weapons catalogue was poorly implemented to begin with, since most of the differences between weapons were miniscule, to say the least. The distribution throughout the campaign only made the matter worse since the vast majority of weapons were obsolete before you got them.

One of the few highlights of the game was getting the AK, a dream nursed since FO1 finally come true.

The Assault Rifle in FO/FO2 is an AK, although its a 112, and not a 47.

On the other hand, there were squaddies who HAD to have the M16, the Steyr or the police shotgun. In a way, the equipment a character carries makes him as unique as his choices during the hgame or his general makeup. Well, that's at least the way it should be....

So why do you need 12 different types of SMGs, and another dozen or so types of virtually identical pistols to achieve this? One of the problems with younger gamers is that they don't understand that what they're seeing in-game isn't necessarily exactly what their character has. What real difference is there between a Browning HP and a Beretta M92? Not much, really. The ammo capacity comes to mind, but that's really about it. What weapons represent is a class of weapons. While we have a desc for aesthetic purposes, one semi-auto 9mm pistol doesn't really have enough characteristics to set it apart from others of its kind, so they're all lumped into one category, rather than going the route of the old Top Secret S. I. game (a "PnP" affair) where you literally had hundreds and hundreds of different weapons ranging from .22 pen guns up to 14.6mm heavy machineguns.

As to "modern weapons don't fit the FO-setting": FO1 had a full-automatic shotgun as well as a sniper rifle. I see no problem with putting their real life counterparts into the game.

"Modern weapons" aren't the issue. FO doesn't take place in our world. It's an alternate timeline. So the issue is "RW" weapons. There's nothing wrong w/having a weapon that does something exactly like a present-day "RW" weapon. However, it should look like something a pulp sci-fi writer ca. 1950 would have envisioned, not the latest, greatest piece of plastic and ceramic that has the gun geeks drooling.

What do you think the odds are that the exact same weapons would have designed? IIRC the Soviets and US of A never entered into the "proxy-wars" of the '50s - '80s in the FO universe, this alone would have had a huge impact on small arms design.

Besides, it's much better to have a "Winchester City Killer" (with the Desert Warfare package!) than the Pancor Jackhammer. Why? Because that way you remember you're playing FO, not Counter Strike or a half-dozen other games that are so similar that you have to squint at the interface before you can tell them apart.

OTB

[Yossarian]

What purpose was their to the huge weapons catalogue? After Mission 2 you had enough AKs to equip all of your short-range fighters w/something that out-performed any SMG and had plentiful ammo. OTB

This is a problem of weapon placement, not of using RL weapons in general. But you're right, this could have been handled much better.

Yes, I did get a kick out of having Stitch running around w/a Scorpion for most of the game. No that wasn't a huge issue to me. OTB

Well, I really liked it.

Besides, we're not talking about having weapons called "generic light pistol", rather it's things like "9mm Pistol", then the description goes on to list a fictional model and a small blurb about its capabilities. (Preferably not the history of it, since this would be unknown to the player, although we have suggested having multiple, tailored descs for items based on the player's skills.) OTB

Giving a fictional name and desc doesn't change the fact that it would be the generic weapon standing in for a whole class of weapons

The Assault Rifle in FO/FO2 is an AK, although its a 112, and not a 47. OTB

This is what I'm getting at. This weapon is a generic placeholder for a whole class of weapons. It was named AK 112, looked a bit between a cross between an AK and a M16 and it was clear that it stood for "assault rifle". But that just isn't the same thing...

What real difference is there between a Browning HP and a Beretta M92? Not much, really. The ammo capacity comes to mind, but that's really about it. What weapons represent is a class of weapons. While we have a desc for aesthetic purposes, one semi-auto 9mm pistol doesn't really have enough characteristics to set it apart from others of its kind, so they're all lumped into one category, rather than going the route of the old Top Secret S. I. game (a "PnP" affair) where you literally had hundreds and hundreds of different weapons ranging from .22 pen guns up to 14.6mm heavy machineguns. OTB

Well, I don't want to promote overdoing the weapons catalogue (they could have chucked out the whole WWII weaponry adding some postapoc homebuilt pipe rifles and crossbows - which should have also have had an impact on gameplay!), and of course you're right that all guns of a class basically do the same thing.
But there are (somebody is going to kill me for this) aesthetic differences between the guns, which gamers like me (and maybe I'm the only one) tend to use to flesh out the characters they are playing. For me, a thief just is a bit more thievy if he has the Luger or the Needler. A marauder gets a bit of extra evil from carrying an AK, while a M16 (in my eyes) is more fitting for a ranger.

Besides, it's much better to have a "Winchester City Killer" (with the Desert Warfare package!) than the Pancor Jackhammer. Why? Because that way you remember you're playing FO, not Counter Strike or a half-dozen other games that are so similar that you have to squint at the interface before you can tell them apart. OTB

Fair enough, I missed that one in FOT, as well as the shitty 10mm pistol which kind of grew on me...Concerning FO uniqueness: I don't think it would suffer much from introducing some RL, most of which even existed before the timelines branched (which is another can of worms altogether).
How about the police shotgun and the M14, for instance? Or the revolvers?
I'd really like to see those in the next installment...