"Non-lethal" combat: A proposal

[Franz Schubert]

It seems most of us like the idea of a combat system that doesn't always end in death. I've got a few ideas on this, which I think are very plausible and could be implemented in FO3:

They could have two different "levels" of combat, such as "brawl", and "serious". In some scenarios, NPC's would initiate combat as a "brawl", like when you piss someone off in a conversation. With a "brawl", combat would automatically end when one of the characters goes below a certain percentage of HP (just like in the Temple of Trials).

Each weapon in the game would be flagged as either "brawl" or "serious". Brawl weapons would include unarmed, some melee weapons, etc. Other weapons like guns and grenades would be flagged as "serious", and if they are used during a "brawl" combat, it would automatically be elevated to "serious" combat, and would not end until one person is dead. The AI could be programmed to not use a "serious" weapon unless the PC elevates combat first. (of course some NPC's could be flagged as "treacherous" and might switch to a gun even if the PC is sticking with fists, like what Lo Pan does.)

Of course the "brawl" weapons can be used in "serious" combat to kill, but the point is to add realism (you slap some asshole around enough, and they'll back off).

This theory could be applied to multi-NPC combat. As long as it remains a brawl, the NPC's who reach the low HP mark would just run away from the fight (If you follow them and kill them, even with fists, that would elevate combat). If it's still a brawl, the fight would end when everyone on the "team" are below the HP mark.

All this would apply to the PC and his allies, of course: if your PNPC's are all beaten and run away, then your health drops below the mark, you lose the brawl, combat ends, but you don't lose the game. This could have dialogue/quest implications, which would be neat.

So, what are your guys' thoughts on this idea? Questions? Comments? Discuss!

[Mismatch]

Yeah, methinks its good.
I even like it actually....
Gives one the possibility of being a badass and getting into verbal abuse without killling ppl.

[zetabobster]

This would be espacialy cool for UA combat, because if you've ever seen a bar fight, or a school fight, you realize that the goal of combat is not to kill but to gain some authority, and maybe finally get your 'props' from someone, like going through someone in a gang to get to talk to the leader like with the slavers, plus i can't think of any games off hand that have done it already.

[Guest]

What also might be cool is when you knock them out, you can take them back to your hideout/base and interrogate them. Even better, kidnapping, or capturing them alive for bounty.

[Mismatch]

What also might be cool is when you knock them out, you can take them back to your hideout/base and interrogate them. Even better, kidnapping, or capturing them alive for bounty.

yay, you can cut off pieces of them... with your blade...
And if they're lasses, you could... you know...

No.
Actually.
The bringing ppl back to hideout/base is a lil' too much for me. A good idea though, and the interrogation was a good one too. But hideout/base? I'm not sure a hideout/base would be along the lines of a lone wastewandering wanderer....
But interrogation could indeed be used.

[First Force]

i agree with franz, it`s a nice idea.
it would be great knocking out a supermutant,
but me thinks you need high strength to do so in such a situation and i like to put my points more in perception, yup i love my guns

[Mismatch]

but me thinks you need high strength to do so in such a situation and i like to put my points more in perception, yup i love my guns

And agility I suppose..?
What good are guns if you don't have time fireing them.
Oh, and Intelligence...
One must be able to use em too.
I sometimes try in the beginning to be melee proficient.... but well, melee is only useful in arroyo and klamath and the toxic caves.
So, one always end up with guns blazing....

[Wolfman Walt]

I always liked the idea of "stun damage."

[Franz Schubert]

but me thinks you need high strength to do so in such a situation and i like to put my points more in perception, yup i love my guns

Not necessarily strength, just enough proficiency in the skill.

[MurPHy]

With your idea Franz, the cattle prod could actually become a viable weapon. Nothing like 10,000 volts to the nuts to end a barfight real quick.

[Lunchmeat]

I like this idea. Franz's system is simple, and could probably be expanded on, but it's something I'd definitely like to see.

In keeping true to the wasteland environment, if you were rendered incapacitated after a brawl, you would most likely wake up to discover that all your best posessions had been stolen. Then your objective would be to find the NPC who stole them and take them back. This would add some depth to the feature and discourage players from starting needless fights.

Also, the way you perform in brawls should affect how the NPCs react to you. If you stroll into town, find the biggest NPC there and kick his ass you shouldn't expect shit coming from everyone and their mother. Just like prison.

[Retlaw83]

Also, the way you perform in brawls should affect how the NPCs react to you. If you stroll into town, find the biggest NPC there and kick his ass you shouldn't expect shit coming from everyone and their mother. Just like prison.

Are you suggesting prison-rape should be a feature in the next Fallout game?




Because that would be awesome.

[First Force]

it is true indeed that most of your points will go into brawling then, but what if you split fighting in two like fighting unarmed or with weapons, you could specialize in one of em

[Lunchmeat]

I don't think he means brawling as a skill, rather a category of combat set by specific parameters. Once one of those parameters are broken, it enters good ol' fighting-to-the-death combat. Until then it's more of a scuffle.

[Franz Schubert]

Lunchmeat is correct, you would still put points into the standard Melee, Unarmed, Small guns, etc... but with this system in place, it gives you more of an incentive to raise your skill level in unarmed or melee. That way, the gun skills would do realistically much more damage than the melee skills without rendering the melee skills useless.

[MurPHy]

So with this system, the unarmed and melee features won't be entirely useless by the middle of the game. Plus, you can beat the shit outta people, and not get bad karma! Sweet!

However, there should be an effect on karma, whether you kill a person or not. Say, you go into a town, and beat the shit out of an old granny. That should make other (good) NPCs in the town more prone to pick a fight with you, and it should have a negative effect on you karma. You could even go so far as to have a special karmic thing to be "earned". Something like:

"Granny-Puncher"

With an explanation line like this:

"You beat up old Mrs. so-and-so! You bastard!"

Now THAT would be good.

[avenger69ie]

i think its a good idea, but i doubt it'll be implemented. having something like that in a game would be excelent for pure stress relief... many times i've wanted to bash suliks face in for standing in front of me during combat, or blocking a doorway.

On a serious note, a Fear factor when conversing with npc's would be a nice gimmick too... ie: you bash some guy too many times he never talks to you again, or becomes hostile... plus any people whom trust him become hostile towards you.

on the opposite side, if you gain someones trust, your level of trust goes up with his buddies too.
The same way Karma works in FO.

[Janus Matchell]

So far this new Idea of lethal and nonlethal combat intrigues me. I like the idea behind it and thus far it makes lots of sense. However will there be any way to perhaps mod Fallout1/2 or perhaps even tactics to use this idea effeciently? It would be mighty kick ass if you could.

[Guest]

Maybe in tactics, but I'm too lazy to try it.

[First Force]

mmmm i never thought of it that way, sounds good, i would like to see that mod to test it