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 How do you feel about 1st person RPG's View next topic
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Poll :: What do you think of 1st person RPG's?

1st person RPG's suck!
33%
 33%  [ 7 ]
I like 1st person RPG's!
4%
 4%  [ 1 ]
If done right they could be good!
52%
 52%  [ 11 ]
Nothing can make a 1st person RPG good !
9%
 9%  [ 2 ]
Total Votes : 21


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xbow
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 9:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tell us what you think about 1st person RPG's






I'll kick it off with, I don't care for 1st person RPG's

They suck because having such a close up zoomed in look at the characters constantly reminds you that it is just a wire frame with a skin wrapped on it and the characters look no better than animated punch and Judy dolls. Graphics like moronwind's remind me of high tech versions of the old 'monty python and the flying circus ' cut out cartoons. sure 3D will and has gotten better but its hard to 'Suspend Your disbelief' with that shit in your face .

Isometric on the other hand gives you the opportunity to suspend your disbelief because you have the view of god and the characters are small enough so that you really cant pick them apart .

Also having to look at what amounts to a 'radar screen' to find your enemies because your view is so narrow is another sure way to break up the Immersion level. That constant shift of focus from the world view to the
radar screen is a pain in the ass.

The mini map in FOT with friendly and enemy dots on a simplified map sucked because it took the FOG out of the game. its no fun if you know where all the enemy troop are. surprise is good


Last edited by xbow on Sat Sep 25, 2004 3:17 am; edited 1 time in total
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Briosafreak
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I liked the first Krondor, so they can be nice. Of course that in that game the camera would go to iso when the combat started.
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Franz Schubert
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2004 11:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Betrayal at Krondor rules. But the combat was 3rd person... another huge difference is that the camera doesn't move with the mouse, so you can click things without looking directly at them.

I would hardly call BaK a quintessential "First Person RPG".
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Blargh
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 2:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Claiming that the style or genre of a game makes it inherently OMG SHIIT 'N EVUL!!!1 is effectively technophobia, you bigot(s).

Admittedly the relative difference in aesthetic quality between 2D/3D graphics can be jarring with regard to RPGs especially. However I personally believe gameplay, plot and other more important elements should be able to overcome any such issues. If graphics are the draw card, then perhaps you would be more comfortable playing Unreal Tournament or any other 'pretty' game.

Like most things, it ends with how the game/software in question is handled. This means that theoretically, a first person RPG could be fucking awesome.

In this however and with regard to Fallout 3 specifically, I have significant doubts. icon_drunk
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xbow
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 4:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Blargh wrote:
Claiming that the style or genre of a game makes it inherently OMG SHIIT 'N EVUL!!!1 is effectively technophobia, you bigot(s).


You have made a good point there, the premise of the poll was biased so I edited its title.

True, graphics are secondary to game play, and a good plot. I still enjoy old text games like ‘infidel’ and ‘hitchhikers guide to the galaxy‘.

So it would seem that 1st person RPG’s do not inherently suck big chunks of whale vomit but I sill find them to be less enjoyable than isometric games. I purchased Morrowind not long after Bethesda picked up Fallout3, I played it for a total of about ten hours and haven’t returned to the game in quite a long time. On the other hand I remember when I picked up Fallout I couldn’t seem to stay away from the computer and I had more red eye sessions than I can count. But was it the graphics that made the difference? No, it was the game play, the atmosphere, and the plot.

Morrowind is a visually stunning game as far as the backgrounds are concerned but the characters look plastic to me. Still the worst thing about Morrowind isn’t the perspective, graphics or interface, it’s the world that Bethesda created. It is as I said before a big uninteresting place with lots of canned side quests and a plot that I didn’t find interesting. In my book they spent too much time perfecting the graphics and not enough time perfecting the overall game.
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Sovy Kurosei
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 5:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

First person RPGs do not inherently suck in themselves. However, such presentation is usually followed up by game mechanics that deteriorate the gaming experience. For example, combat in first person view usually relies more on player skill than on character skill. I point to a classic example Daggerfall. In that game, all you did was hold down the right button on your mouse, and go at it like an epileptic schizophrenic. No, I'm not joking, you really go at it like that. Bad guy will die. Granted, when it comes to melee weapons it is more forgiving since you are up close. When guns or bows and arrows come to play, the system is much less forgiving. Infact, it can get downright frustrating when playing as an archer in Morrowind.

Presentation of the game dictates a great deal of what kind of combat system you will have, the limitations of that combat system, and what you can do within that frame of the combat system. I cannot possibly see any way to make Fallout 3 a first person, real time game without making it feel like a UT2K4 mod, a bunch of kids knocked up on cocaine, hopping around like jack rabbits and throwing slurs around with more typos than letters in the sentence. If Fallout 3 is going to be a first person shooter using the same engine as TESIV, then we will be in for quite a rollercoaster ride into Hell and back.

I sincerely hope that Bethesda listens more to reason that marketting demographics when it comes to creating Fallout 3.
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xbow
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

artifact of double that wouldnt go away..sorry


Last edited by xbow on Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:29 am; edited 1 time in total
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xbow
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 8:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sovy Kurosei wrote:
If Fallout 3 is going to be a first person shooter using the same engine as TESIV, then we will be in for quite a rollercoaster ride into Hell and back.


I would have to agree, but even if they do want to save some $Jing wa$ and time by using a common engine Fallout3 could still be presented as an isometric game by altering the camera position and angle. There is an upcoming game that uses a 3D engine but presents an isometric view called Restricted Area that might be worth taking a look at. Will Bethsda make Fallout# a 3D first person shooter, honestly I doubt that they could possibly be so dumb. Turn based combat is probably going to go away to be replaced by something resembeling FOT's CTB. But that will still be ok with me because its the characters skill that matters in CTB not player skill.

Attached is a Resticted Area screen shot that I messed with a bit to give it a falloutie look , this is what Bethesda could do with a little camera positioning and common sense. I am usually pretty negative about Fallout3 but the possibility does exist to see a worthy iteration of Fallout by Bethesda, if only they can sieze the moment, I think they want to make a good game and thats a good thing.




Genuine Restricted Aea Screen Shots


The Official Website

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Wolfman Walt
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 9:26 am Reply with quoteBack to top

xbow wrote:


Portable weapons of mass destruction?
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Mismatch
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:23 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Firstperson never makes a good RPG, it may make a average action RPG, but never ever a good RPG.
For RPG 3rd person is needed, prefferably isometric.
All the best RPG:s have used isometric and 3rd person.
The statistics speak their... clear language.
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jetbaby
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Being too lazy and sinus-filled to read all of your posts I'll say this:


First person RPGs suck about as much as games can. The only one I've played is... Wizardry 3 or something on the PS2 and it was a futile attempt at gaming. It's just ugly, too close, too... too a lot of things. Too unRPG for one. However, that doesn't mean if someone can make a GOOD one that I can enjoy that I won't buy it.
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coldboy
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 1:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

i can`t vote because i can traslate this vote but if fallout is ist person shoot i will never play it because it will not good = point and click smile)
+do yuo have some picture about fallout 3?
________
iolite vaporizer review


Last edited by coldboy on Fri Feb 04, 2011 8:09 am; edited 1 time in total
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S4ur0n27
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 6:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

oooH my eyes ache.
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Sovy Kurosei
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 7:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

xbow:

Yes, the engine can present the game in an isometric point of view. The GameInformer article stated that you can see your character in 3rd person, so it is not that far of a stretch of the imagination to have the camera positioned in an isometric view point. Unfortunately, it isn't that simple as putting the camera high up in the sky. The engine also has to be able to handle turn-based combat, has to be able to let you see through walls and roof tops, allow the player to move around by clicking on the landscape, so forth and so forth. There are limitations to what the engine can or cannot do. And while you can tweak the Oblivion engine to account for that, I don't think Bethesda will do that. Afterall, why expend the resources to tweak the engine and have to retrain your staff to make the game, when they can just basically use the same Oblivion engine and do the same thing they did with TESIV, except this time in the Fallout setting.

I don't think that Bethesda is going to pop out a FOPOS, and the developers appear to want to make a good game and like to try and communicate with the fan base. But Bethesda will be making THEIR Fallout, THEIR way. And so far the intentions from Bethesda don't look that promising. Hopefully Bethesda will play test the game and come to the conclusion that, while melee weapons in real time is not bad, having ranged weapons in real time makes for nothing more than a Halo mod.
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Kashluk
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 10:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I've got two games for you: UUW and Arx Fatalis. Play those first and then try to say "1st person RPGs definately sucK" again. You will notice some great difficulties in that action.
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S4ur0n27
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

UUW?
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Briosafreak
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ultima Underworld.
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Sovy Kurosei
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PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2004 11:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ultima Underworld, I believe. I have heard of Arx Fatalis, never got a chance to try it out.

EDIT: Eh, Briosafreak got it before me.
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Mr. Teatime
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 12:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

First person RPGs don't suck, I just don't think they're right for a fallout game, especially a direct sequel.
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xbow
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2004 2:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I didnt mean that the oblivion engine could be used to make a good fallout3 without considerable modification. To solve many problems I think Bethesda will do things like doing away with turn based combat and roof popping all together. If they use the isometric view at all Bethsda will use it for outside action but switch the view to first person once a player enters a building. even if that were the case the combat could still reflect the characters stats and skills by using something like CTB and Sentry Mode's. The player would however find it difficult to direct his fire at a particular enemy because the close up action would be too fast.


Last edited by xbow on Mon Sep 27, 2004 6:55 am; edited 2 times in total
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