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UnKre3gle
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Duck and Cover was a great little site when I first joined it, back in early 2000. We were still at the domain www.fallout2.net then… on the very same server as No Mutants Allowed, funnily enough. The guys that ran the server wouldn’t allow two sites reporting news about the same game, so we were hosted by an Interplay fan site – a sneaky piece of rule-breaking. The server guys never noticed.

Back then, when Jay was still leading the charge, news of Fallout Tactics was slowly but surely starting to creep through the net. Enthusiasm was high, and people anxious to learn more about the new mystery game. DAC wasn’t as big as NMA back then, but our news posting and interview work began to get better and better – some might even hazard to say our news was the best (oh my!).

It got us noticed anyway… Silverdawn, the head of the RPG department at Gamespy, offered a place in their buzzing network of sites. We were shocked – DAC was just a little dinky site, hosted by an Interplay fan site, and was always huddling in the shadow of the mighty NMA. We gratefully accepted, packed up our stuff, and got Smackrazor (who was the #1 guy in the Fallout modding scene back then) to design our new site.

It was exactly then that Jay’s school commitments swallowed up all of his time, and he couldn’t afford to work on DAC anymore. He hadn’t really been working on the site much over the previous 6 months or so, but he was still an important part of what made it work. Wishing me luck, he handed over the keys and gave me DAC. It was a really nice gesture, and I was really grateful, but it was also at a time when the site was just about to take on its biggest hurdle yet – moving everything and starting at Gamespy.

With lots of help from Silverdawn and Smackrazor, we managed to get it started – we had a brand new “picture of the week� feature, a brilliant new news-writing script (which could send the news all over Gamespy – meaning our stories would regularly hit the headlines at gamespydaily.com), and of course, the famous forums.

The forums at fallout2.net weren’t dead, as it were… they were just very small and very quiet – especially compared to NMA. It didn’t take long at our new domain – www.rpgplanet.com/fallout - before our forums exploded with newcomers. Recognise any of these names? Dolmaniac – Sir Apostle’s Ass – A Fat Penguin Known as Tux… and of course, people like The Guardian and JimmyJay86. They were there pretty early in the forum’s life, and they helped make it fun place to hang out. The DAC community was alive!

Things were going well, but I still really needed a hand here-and-there to get some things working. One day, while chatting with the boys (JC, Greg – I’m not sure if Saint Proverbius was around then), the honourable Dan Wood made a polite appearance, and after a while, he agreed to jump on the DAC train.

Later on, when Killzig’s animal behaviour made things difficult for JC and Greg over at Vault 13, causing him to get fired, I invited him to join the DAC crew. Saint Proverbius joined us shortly before Vault13 closed, if I remember correctly… just after I packed up the site and moved it off Gamespy. But I’ll get to that in a bit.

This was a pretty hot time for Fallout – every man and his dog was starting a fan site! Apart from No Mutants Allowed and Duck and Cover, there was of course the mighty Vault 13 (which I mentioned earlier), run by JC and Greg. Vault 13 was like the dark sheep of the Fallout sites… it started off sensible and “politically-correct�, but then as time passed, became crazier and darker – which people loved. It was probably the biggest Fallout site (in terms of regular visitors) ever.

Then there was Fallout Aftermath, run by a nutty French guy I’ve forgotten the name of – Fallout Xtreme, run by none-other than KellyX and Mr. Presto – and a huge number of non-English sites. Polish sites especially! The scene was really thriving – and that was due, of course, to Fallout Tactics demo being released.

The single player demo was closely scrutinized by many. It had things going for it, and had things against it… but when the multiplayer demo was released, the scene got BUSY. GameSpyArcade was overflowing with eager players - #vault13 (or were we at #fallout by then? I can’t remember) was bustling with activity, clans were formed, and forums brimmed with new members, keen to chat about the game.

They were pretty good times… for me, they were probably the best times. The site had grown quite big by then – we had the largest forum of all the hosted sites – and news was frequent and interesting. Our Fallout content had probably quadrupled from when we first moved… It was really rewarding getting a new feature up, and having a bunch of people email and say “That’s great, thanks for keeping such a wicked site�. Our relationship with the Fallout Tactics developers was great – we’d regularly spend evenings chatting away on IRC, we’d occasionally have brilliant online battles with them through the Fallout Tactics demo, and we’d always share the gossip.

Speaking of IRC, that’s when the #fallout (or #vault13?) channel was at its peak as well. Everyone was friends – we’d spend hours joking around and talking bullshit with each other… without attacking one another. The vibe was really strong and good – you’d wonder what you were missing out on if you didn’t drop in for a day or so.

That, for me, was definitely the high-point.

After that, when Fallout Tactics was released, there was still a buzz of activity in the scene, but things started to drop off slowly. While there were plenty of new clans being formed all the time, most of them rarely played… and one-by-one they began to fade away. The map-making scene was good though, and even to this day it thrives on… albeit, with very little new in the way of maps being released. Fun posts on the forums turned into disappointed grumbles – which when fed with the right kind of fire – would soon turn into bitter attacks and complaints. It was disheartening, but I loved Fallout and working with the community, so I didn’t let it get to me too much.

Then Fallout Fantasy rumours hit, and Killian posted news about it – and rightly so. The higher powers at GameSpy, who were already a bit on edge with Killian due to his destructive behaviour, put their foot down and kicked him off the network. This all happened when I was away.

When I found out what happened, the choice was obvious, if a little difficult to carry out. I told Silverdawn, the leader of RPG section, that if Killian was fired, I would pack up the site and go independent. He was disappointed (we were being groomed to be www.planetfallout.com) and tried to explain why Killian was removed… I understood his points, but I was loyal to my friends – I wouldn’t let him get shafted like that.

So the site was redesigned and moved, to the sexy new domain, www.duckandcover.net. By this time Saint Proverbius was aboard as well, and things kicked off brilliantly. While it was a little tough getting by without all of the resources that GameSpy had, it was great feeling independent and being your own boss. Most of the forum regulars followed us over, and many of them are still around today.

Since then though, things got progressively darker. Venom was now free to enter Saint and Killy’s posts, because we didn’t have the bosses at Gamespy looming over us. They wrote it like they saw it, with a detached bitterness and sarcasm – the reportable news, in general, wasn’t too cheery after all. I don’t really like that style, personally… but the majority of the vocal Fallout fans loved it (and still do love it).

The DAC I had worked on for years was starting to become more of a soapbox than a news centre, but I didn’t mind too much. I doubt anyone knows Fallout better than Saint Proverbius (maybe not even Tim Cain himself?) – and when it comes to factual information about the games and universe, he can’t be faulted. Sure, he can be a bit rough around the edges sometimes, but that’s all part of his charm.

Killzig, while erratic and self-serving at times, is still a damn good writer, and a smart guy as well. He’d surprise me a lot – just when you’d think his bullshit had gone too far, he’d flip personalities, become friendly again and produce some five-star work.

But here we are now. I hadn’t posted much on DAC anymore… and I hadn’t visited #fallout for a long time, mostly because I didn’t like the way it was going. I let it run its course though… other people still enjoyed it, so I wasn’t going to stop it. I still love most of the community though – I’ve put four years of my life into this thing, and I do care for it. I’ve got friends in the community – and it’s still great knowing that new kids playing Fallout for the first time can have a site that is useful to them (I’d still get private messages thanking me, even though my duckandcover email address was closed down ages ago). I can’t help but look after it.

But yesterday, I drew the line. Killzig decided, for a laugh, to give a bunch of people administrative powers over the site, and then cause “pandemonium�. Apart from banning about 10 or 15 people, and messing up the smileys, they deleted a countless number of threads at random, destroyed part of the php code, and mailed around 2200+ people a picture montage of men fisting eachother… courtesy of admin@duckandcover.net, or whatever.

It’s not just the 30-40 or so regular voices in the forum that gets that email. It’s EVERYONE. Kids, parents… people with good intention, who join up and want to take part, all because they LOVE Fallout. That’s intolerable.

Duck and Cover has become a tool for ruining the community. I’ve spent four years working on the site. I’ve spent entire days putting together single sections of the site, because I wanted DAC to be one of the best Fallout sites out there. 99% of the content on the site was put together by me, by hand. It hurts me to see the site I helped create being used to terrorise others. I won’t let it happen. That’s why I closed it down.

When Killzig can randomly destroy parts of the site & community because he feels like it, things have gone too far. I don’t know when Killzig became owner of DAC – because I didn’t say anything to him. I’ve never given him the thumbs-up to take the steering wheel. But now, he’s changed all the passwords and deleted my account. Go on an have a look in the news archives… see who posted some of the very first news on here. It’s posted by Anonymous.

And here he is on the DAC forums, asking people where DAC should be headed. He says the site was stagnate. It needs more post-apocalyptic stuff… like on games and movies and things.

We’ve been doing this for a while now. We need new sections? More content? OK. Who’ll make it? You? I’ve made all the content in the past.

Complaining about how the community needs more lifeblood, and then attacking it, is not a sensible approach. Why do you care? When will you randomly ban / destroy another part of the community?

DAC is not yours, Killzig. It never was. Why do you want to keep it around… for the community? Is it a power thing? When will you randomly attack it next?

So much for being a friend.
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Didn't we have a retirement party for you a while ago? You should be in Bali having a good time mate!

Its not just about me, you didn't say anything to Saint either. You also forget to mention what happened directly after we were forced off of GSI. I found us a host double quick. You complained about having to pay for a website design, who came up with one? Who paid for the domain?
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iohkus
Desert Strider
Desert Strider


Joined: 03 Jul 2003
Posts: 830
Location: canadialand

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

lol... what the fuck?

give iohkus total control and everything will be fine
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UnKre3gle
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yes, that was great finding us new free hosting. And it was great that you offered to pay for the domain! Imagine what might have happened if I'd taken KellyX up on his offer to pay for it all... HE might be running the site into the ground, and deleting MY accounts!

I retired from the front-line of DAC, I still ghostly watched over it after my departure. After all, most if of was created by me, remember? I love the community and want to make sure it doesn't get fucked over - I had to keep an eye on it, right?

After all, who else would make sure it stayed together. You?

Now I've answered your questions. Be sporting and answer mine from the previous post. Try not to destroy anymore of the community while you're at it, though.
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KrokGloken
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 32

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:45 am Reply with quoteBack to top

What the hell? Well, the truth finally comes out I guess. Thanks for telling us who didn't know what the fuck was going on.
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

oooo maybe you should have taken KellyX's offer, would have been interesting to say the least. I'm not sure why you're so confused/upset about me deleting your account? You handed out passwords to Odin. Keep an eye on it? You've done what exactly since you retired? Changed a couple of forum ranks and made a few funny posts? Added some smileys? Go YOU!

I'm not sure what your question is? Why am I keeping DAC up? Because the people would have it that way it seems.
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Bleusilences
Vault Dweller
Vault Dweller


Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 145
Location: In Boring land

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

At least I know the truth.


Last edited by Bleusilences on Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:02 am; edited 1 time in total
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UnKre3gle
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I've sorted out countless issues, my old friend. INCLUDING fixing the forums yesterday and sending an apology to all of those that received fist.jpg, courtesy of your hand.

So you didn't understand my question? Fair enough, I guess it IS pretty complicated... hard to wrap your head around, eh? I'll go slowly for you.

Yes, the people would like DAC to stay around. I'd like it to kick on as well... but NOT when you can randomly fuck it up. You have no real regard or respect for the community... you instigated that shit that happened yesterday.
So here's the tricky part of the question: what do you care if DAC lives or dies?

Edit: Oh, and by the way, I gave Odin the link to the FTP so that all of the good work here could live on at NMA... I wouldn't want the site to go down and lose all of that stuff, now would I?
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 2:58 am Reply with quoteBack to top

FIXING the forums? by making them unavailable? Great job fixing them there buddy!

Fact is spaz and pyro didn't fuck up any php. they would have needed ftp access for that. the only thing spazmo messed up was the general discussion forum with an overly ambitious auto prune. that was easily remedied. so they changed a couple of sigs and banned a few chuckle heads. No harm done.

As for whether I care if DAC lives or dies. I care plenty ole buddy! Care enough to keep us up and running. Not shut things off cause people say a gross image omg.
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UnKre3gle
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:00 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I closed them before you could fuck people over any more. You do care, do you? WONDERFUL way of showing how responsible and caring you are.

So why do you care? What is it about DAC you love? The ability to reach out and crush people at random?
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

That and many other things. And I didn't fuck anyone over I just let Pyro have a night to have a little fun. All to be fixed the following morning. No harm, no foul. Fixing != Deleting. "Reach out and crush someone," not likely but catchy.
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LlamaGod
U R Ded Faget
U R Ded Faget


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 931
Location: No

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

The new smilies are better.
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UnKre3gle
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Code:
<Killzig> Megatron is going to be made an ADMIN
<Megatron5000> cheers mate
<Killzig> and all pandemonium shall be unleashed
<Spazmo> hell yeah
<Spazmo> This'll rock
<Megatron5000> mebbe not
<Megatron5000> I'll just ban a few people and stuff B)
<Spazmo> Of course, now the pressure is on Megatron
<Megatron5000> ok
<Killzig> Spazmo, you get to help
<Spazmo> I what?
<Killzig> you get to help
<Spazmo> Well yeah
<Killzig> go make a farking mess
<Spazmo> Oh
<Spazmo> Right then


Yes, you care.

No harm? Apart from all the people being banned, the posts being deleted, and the 2200+ people being sent fist.jpg? I see.
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Bleusilences
Vault Dweller
Vault Dweller


Joined: 25 May 2003
Posts: 145
Location: In Boring land

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

No they are not, there is 4 of them and 2 of them
:spam:
:goat:
have no place, in particular the goatse icon.
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:10 am Reply with quoteBack to top

ooo posts being deleted... tell me, did pyro destroy the dead sea scrolls over here? I wanted him to stimulate the forum, and that's exactly what he did. Lookie, you're actually posting today. We're having discourse! I'm hot for discourse if a few people were fisted in the process its all for the better. Half of them don't even post and another quarter didn't even use legit e-mail addresses.
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Mandalorian FaLLouT GoD
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 09 Jun 2002
Posts: 1741
Location: Legitimate Businessmen's Social Club

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:11 am Reply with quoteBack to top

UnKre3gle wrote:
No harm? Apart from all the people being banned, the posts being deleted, and the 2200+ people being sent fist.jpg? I see.


i understand kreegles pain and shit but how come i didnt get the fist picture. i feel like i was being spared and left out from all the excitement... :goat:
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LlamaGod
U R Ded Faget
U R Ded Faget


Joined: 28 Jul 2003
Posts: 931
Location: No

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Bleusilences wrote:
No they are not, there is 4 of them and 2 of them
:spam:
:goat:
have no place, in particular the goatse icon.


cry more noob


And hey, the banned people were people who kinda deserved it and all.
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Saint_Proverbius
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 1549

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

UnKre3gle wrote:
We?ve been doing this for a while now. We need new sections? More content? OK. Who?ll make it? You? I?ve made all the content in the past.


How about the Soldiers of Anarachy interview? The Trash interview? The Lionheart stuff(interviews, dev chats, etc)? I did those.

Quote:
So much for being a friend.


Hey, I didn't even know about any of this. I didn't know about the fist thing, nor the forum stuff, none of it. I refreshed RPG Codex this morning to start the day only to see, "DAC is dead" as the top headline. That's how I found out about the thing. If there was a problem, you could have emailed me. You could have ICQed me. Hell, you could have even closed the site temporarily and waited for me to reply.

Instead, I find out from Odin that you gave him our passwords to our FTP and control panel so he could have all our stuff - even the stuff that you didn't do, that I did, without even contacting me about it.

Is that your idea of being friends?

Quote:
So here's the tricky part of the question: what do you care if DAC lives or dies?


Either or, doesn't really matter to me. However, if it's dead, it shouldn't be parted out to a third party without asking the people who also did stuff for the site what they want. That's the BIG POINT here.
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UnKre3gle
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 21 Jan 2004
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

So that makes it OK to fuck it over? Heh, I mean... "stimulate" it? Dead Sea Scrolls eh? Some people enjoy their community discussions here - it means something to 'em, otherwise they wouldn't come back. You should not have the right to just simply delete it because you're bored and don't care.

Man, you don't really give a shit at all. This site and community is a toy for you. Look at you making excuses for attacking the forums yesterday... "half of them don't post!" - "a quarter don't use legit emails!". Come on.

Don't shit where you eat. I closed DAC down because it was a tool for you to shit on fallout fans.
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Wed Jan 21, 2004 3:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Hm. I guess there's no changing your mind then. Ah well, Kreegle you're a scholar and a gentleman. I LOVE YOU MAN! No matter what kind of doody head you are or how much you hate me but there's really no sense in continuing this conversation.
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