i'm being repressed!

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Does it piss you guys off when you use a dollar bill?

[ExtremeDrinker]

I seem to remember this being mandatory all through my school years...I never said it. I never got in trouble.

It takes a stronger person to not join the herd...There might have been one or two really firm believers in the Pledge, but for the most part, everyone else stood and said it just to not be singled out.

There are better ways to show patriotism than saying a poem in front of your peers...Like...

a. Going to strip clubs and giving the stripper wearing the flag the most money...
b. Not drinking Canadian beer
c. Stand around the mall in front of Hot Topic pretending you didn't buy your entire outfit there.
d. Put one of those flag stickers on your forehead while having your South American serving wench juice lemons for your tea with her nipples.
e. Make Saddam puppets with tiny genitals.
f. Create stunning short stories about President George Bush where he is freed to the jungles of Brazil to return to his former roll of George of the Jungle, swinging into trees for the enjoyment of all.
g. Take a dump on the hood of a Honda or Nissan.

[Smiley]

What better to complain about than hating the United States? I mean, it's so hip to hate the U.S.A!

There are plenty of reasons to hate the US, as there is to love it!
Everytime somebody says something bad about the states you get a spastic brain-attack, jeez relax for one fucking second already!

To me it seems akin to Hitler Youth-type stuff. No, no, I am not equating America to the Third Reich.

Seems pretty fucking close to me though...!

What kind of half-assed politician put it through anyway, that kids are to recite the allegiance?

Yes! Kids are out of control today! We must teach them discipline! And relieve them of their criminal and violent behaviour! Guns for every house!

Hypocrits?

[Alphawulf]

Does it piss you guys off when you use a dollar bill?

No, it has no patriotic meaning. It is an item with a fairly secure value that we use in our everyday lives to barter for goods (like in Fallout!). Not something we use to exclaim our patriotism (like in Fallout!). Many people also don't give the presidents on the bills a second thought (like in Fallout...I mean the pledge).

I got a new signature! Only I truly exist!

[ExtremeDrinker]

Does it piss you guys off when you use a dollar bill?

No, it has no patriotic meaning.

Unless you're buying an island nation.

[Killa-Killa]

Or stamping out canadian patriotism, by using a real dollar, and smiling when the guy behind the counter realizes how worthless their money is!

The best way to show your patriotism: to wear one of those "He Lied... They died" buttons.

[Evil Natured Robot]

It is your right not to say the pledge of allegiance.

It is NOT your right to not have other people say it around you.

There's a big difference. In this country, we're generally not forced to proclaim things we don't believe. Forcing someone to say the Pledge of Allegiance is not only stupid, it's also a violation of their rights.

It's not the fact that others are saying it, it's the fact that he's forced to.

Strapon, if you actually care about it, you should refuse to say the pledge every day until they get it through their thick skulls that the rule they've made is wrong.

You should be fucking happy to sing the song, if you feel that the song is pointless to sing then you should get the fuck out of our country.

Funny, I never remember singing the pledge.

I don't care what people do when they come into this country, but they should atleast respect are traditions.

Are we going to make them celebrate holidays if they don't want to? Will they have to bake apple pie, join the Boy Scouts, and buy an SUV too? It's not tradition that's important in the US, it's the rule of law and personal liberties. When you make tradition into law you lose sight of what actually matters.

It's just I also find the fact that people are turning our pledge and flag into a, "Do it or else you're an unpatriotic arab." kind of thing very non-represenitive of what the U.S. was founded on.

Didn't you just say people who think the pledge is pointless should "get the fuck our of our country?" This is some grade-A manure you're spilling.

[satanisgreat]

You shouldn't have to pledge. I remember a Johovah's Witness in my middle school. She never had to pledge. Just talk to your teachers or principal about it and say it goes against your beliefs.

[atoga]

Nothing like that in Canada, though pledging allegiance sounds like a real pisser, even if you do like your country. And franky I can see a pledge of allegiance turning a lot of people off of that sort of thing.

Does it piss you guys off when you use a dollar bill?

In Canada we have the $1 coin (loonie) which is so much more efficient. pwned.

Suddenly I feel happy to be a Canadian.

[POOPERSCOOPER]

It's just I also find the fact that people are turning our pledge and flag into a, "Do it or else you're an unpatriotic arab." kind of thing very non-represenitive of what the U.S. was founded on.

Didn't you just say people who think the pledge is pointless should "get the fuck our of our country?" This is some grade-A manure you're spilling.[/quote]

I never said that quote, learn to fucking read the posts and who it is posted by, jackass.

I don't think you guys got what I meant about "Do you get offended by the dollar bill?", it does have in God We Trust printed on it. If you guys are offended that you have to sing "under god" yet don't care about "In god we trust" on the dollar bill, then I fail to understand what the problem is.

Also, Traditions aren't SUVs and Hammburgers. Traditions are things like the pledge, flag, vets day, Independance day.

[OnTheBounce]

Didn't you just say people who think the pledge is pointless should "get the fuck our of our country?" This is some grade-A manure you're spilling.

I never said that quote, learn to fucking read the posts and who it is posted by, jackass.

Really? I guess I imagined having read your posting this:

You should be fucking happy to sing the song, if you feel that the song is pointless to sing then you should get the fuck out of our country.

Let me guess: your little brother who also has access to your account posted that, and not you? Am I close?

BTW, the "under God" was added in 1954 at the behest of the Knights of Columbus. Most of the changes to the Pledge since its writing in 1892 have been ultra-nationalist groups like the Daughters of the American Revolution who had little or nothing in common w/Francis Bellamy, its socialist author. Linkage.

Personally, I've worn a uniform and have been shot at in the name of this great corporation of ours, and I'll be damned if I'm not offended at the idea of children being forced to recite what amounts to a jumbled, meaningless mantra when it comes spilling out of their lips. Or the fact that "In God We Trust" is printed on bills. (This is another thing that came out of that dark and oppressive time: the '50s. Don't believe me? Get a book on numismatics and you'll see that the Knights of Columbus were active in quite a few ways trying to cram their vision of America down everyone's throat.)

Would someone please tell me why it is that people that supposedly stand for things like "liberty" and "freedom" are usually the first ones to jump on a bandwagon and look down the bridges of their noses at people who aren't marching in lock step? The boat has left on that issue, and I wasn't on it...

OTB

[Hammer]

Oh and the "under god" bit just pisses me off.

So I bet you get really pissed off when you cash your pay check, right Axel?

Give me a break with this "Under God" horse shit, if you were truly firm believers in that saying the phrase "Under God" was a Nazi esque thing to do then you'd also be demanding American currency be changed to say something other than "In God We Trust". Fact of the matter is you're all lazy turds who rather sit down and talk about Dragon Ball Z before class as opposed to say a short pledge of allegiance, do you also get appalled and refuse to stand when the Star Spangled Banner is played?

Again I don't think people should be forced to say it simply because that diminishes the meaning of the pledge, however people keep mentioning being "part of the herd" I laugh at that seeing as how most Americans today refuse to say the pledge, and most schools never play it in the mornings. One thing that pisses me off though is flag burning, it's one thing not to say the pledge but when you burn the flag that pisses me off and if anybody burned the flag in front of me I'd sodomize them with a sharp stick.

Call me an extremist if you want, but that's my belief.

Would someone please tell me why it is that people that supposedly stand for things like "liberty" and "freedom" are usually the first ones to jump on a bandwagon and look down the bridges of their noses at people who aren't marching in lock step? The boat has left on that issue, and I wasn't on it...

Would you explain to me why people who claim they love the country and have pride in it insist that things like burning the flag and saying we're the scum of the Earth is considered patriotic? Flag waving is not patriotic either, but I have two flags out side of my home, the U.S. Army flag and a United States flag. If I seen anybody burning either one of those flags I'd be angry, and if a Jarhead happened to be burning the Army's flag I'd take a special interest in seeing him suffer.

I simply fail to see the logic behind the idea that BURNING THE FLAG is some how a patriotic thing, or protesting to have Marijuana legalized is patriotic as well.

[Slave_Master]

I simply fail to see the logic behind the idea that BURNING THE FLAG is some how a patriotic thing

Jesus Christ Hammer, everyone knows it's the patriotic thing to root against America.

[POOPERSCOOPER]

Onthebounce I'm talking about:

POOPERSCOOPER wrote:
It's just I also find the fact that people are turning our pledge and flag into a, "Do it or else you're an unpatriotic arab." kind of thing very non-represenitive of what the U.S. was founded on.


Didn't you just say people who think the pledge is pointless should "get the fuck our of our country?" This is some grade-A manure you're spilling.


I didn't say the first QUOTE that he is replying too. It's sad I have to defend myself from people who don't understand that I never said the FIRST statement in any of my posts. Pathetic.

[Neon Dingo]

In Canada we have the $1 coin (loonie) which is so much more efficient. pwned.

Well, America had the Sacajawea (however you spell it) $1 coin, but it failed miserably because all of these assholes hoarded them for collections.

Personally, I don't care if people want to be patriotic. Let them do what they want. But also let people refuse to be patriotic. It's a double standard if you don't.

The whole "In God We Trust" thing was to show how we are different from those "godless Commies," but in my opinion it doesn't really matter anymore. This nation is a secular nation founded on secular values and I haven't seen any information to prove otherwise. The Cold War is over (or so they say).

All in all "In God We Trust" is just a bunch of words and it's not doing anything to you by being on paper. However, forcing someone to SAY it, even if they don't believe in God, pretty much encourages lying or false allegience.

I really think the way people protest these days is really pansy-assed and counter-productive. This new generation of "hippies" is pathetic.

[OnTheBounce]

Would you explain to me why people who claim they love the country and have pride in it insist that things like burning the flag and saying we're the scum of the Earth is considered patriotic? Flag waving is not patriotic either, but I have two flags out side of my home, the U.S. Army flag and a United States flag. If I seen anybody burning either one of those flags I'd be angry, and if a Jarhead happened to be burning the Army's flag I'd take a special interest in seeing him suffer.

I don't see how anyone can be patriotic. Now, before you get pissed, let me explain:

What is patriotism? Is it the belief that your country is right, even when it's wrong?

If the answer is "yes", then that's not something that I'd subscribe to, and I don't see how any rational human being would.

If the answer is "no", then you hold things higher than your country. In that case I don't think you could be called a patriot.

I don't see burning the flag, or any of the things you mentioned as being patriotic. However, I think it is in the general interest of freedom to stick up for people who do these things, simply because persecution is usually a slippery slope. Go for the unpopular ones first. Once legal precedents have been established it's always easier for a group to widen its scope, or for others to come rushing in and march on from where the others left off.

Personally I wouldn't want to see a Marine hurt for burning the Army flag. It's just a piece of cloth. That doesn't mean that I think that Marines should be allowed to march into someone else's home and burn the Army flag there, especially if it didn't belong to the Marine in the first place. This hypothetical Marine should suffer for violating someone else's civil rights, not because he defaced a symbol.

While I am loyal to the US of A to a certain extent -- I have to be since I live here and I know which side my bread is buttered on -- there are things that I hold in far higher esteem than my country, and I won't support it when it's in the wrong.

As for the issue of legalizing marijuana and other controlled substances, I'm all for it. Not because I can't wait to go "roll me a ph4t blunt", but rather because I don't like the idea of someone else telling me to do w/my own body chemistry. Just remember, many of the same people that don't want marijuana legalized are just as eager to see alcohol and tobacco use go the way of the dodo. Personally, I don't drink, but I'll be damned if I'll vote for any prohibition-style legislation, or support a candidate that thinks along those lines.

OTB

[Killa-Killa]

As for the issue of legalizing marijuana and other controlled substances, I'm all for it. Not because I can't wait to go "roll me a ph4t blunt", but rather because I don't like the idea of someone else telling me to do w/my own body chemistry.

What he said. Pot is like alcohol and Cigarettes. They both have long term affects, they both kill people. And for all those who say "Pot's illegal because the trade kills too many poeple" I say WTF are you smokin, bub? It kills so many because its illegal! If cigarettes were illegal, then people would probobly get murdered in the traficin gof that, too. Just deal with it like booze, and your fine. Run somebody over while your high? same as alcohol!

[Slave_Master]

I think it would also be in the government's best interest because A) they spend less (no) money on the war on drugs, and they get taxes off it.

[Neon Dingo]

OTB, time and time again you have proven yourself articulate and intelligent in contributing to the conversation. Well done, lad. I agree with everything you have said.

As for Prohibition, we all know what a great success that was. It pretty much created organized crime.

I don't believe in patriotism in any form. I do not have allegiance with any government, faith, or culture. I am all for individual rights.

A pledge to me is completely relative. It doesn't really mean anything. Neither does a flag.

Actions speak louder than words. Much, much louder.

[axelgreese]

So I bet you get really pissed off when you cash your pay check, right Axel?

Actually just having a paycheck to cash would be enough for me. You're missing the point though, I can ignore the under god written on a dollar bill, however I can't ignore being forced to pledge alliengce to something. Normally, I just ignore things that bother me, it's when people don't alllow me that option that I get pissy. Like for example right now, you won't see me in any protest on this particular subject, because I'm out of school and no one is forcing me to do it. Out of sight out of mind.

Give me a break with this "Under God" horse shit, if you were truly firm believers in that saying the phrase "Under God" was a Nazi esque thing to do then you'd also be demanding American currency be changed to say something other than "In God We Trust". Fact of the matter is you're all lazy turds who rather sit down and talk about Dragon Ball Z before class as opposed to say a short pledge of allegiance, do you also get appalled and refuse to stand when the Star Spangled Banner is played?

It's not the saying it, it's the being forced to say it. And no I don't stand during the national anthem, nor do I cover my heart. But if someone tried to force me too, I'd be damned pissed off.

Again I don't think people should be forced to say it simply because that diminishes the meaning of the pledge, however people keep mentioning being "part of the herd" I laugh at that seeing as how most Americans today refuse to say the pledge, and most schools never play it in the mornings. One thing that pisses me off though is flag burning, it's one thing not to say the pledge but when you burn the flag that pisses me off and if anybody burned the flag in front of me I'd sodomize them with a sharp stick.

Call me an extremist if you want, but that's my belief.

I don't see the point in buring a flag, it's disrespectful. It's just intended to provoke a response, not a method of protest.

If I seen anybody burning either one of those flags I'd be angry, and if a Jarhead happened to be burning the Army's flag I'd take a special interest in seeing him suffer.

Well that's just disrespectful, but then again, you are allowed to be disrespectful, and disrespectful persons are allowed to be treated in a manner befitting them. That does not mean, however, that it is or should be illegal.

I simply fail to see the logic behind the idea that BURNING THE FLAG is some how a patriotic thing, or protesting to have Marijuana legalized is patriotic as well.

What's considered patriotic is, the protesting. They may be protesting an unpopular idea (the right to burn the flag) but that doesn't make the act anyless partriotic. After all, equal rights was an unpopular idea once.

edit: OTB a lad? *giggles* ( <3 OTB )