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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 4:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Once a game gets into the double digits in sequels it can only go downhill. Most game sequels are like that anyway, Japanese or not. Never been a japan-game playing man, myself, 'cause I grew up playing computer games instead of consoles and watching cartoons instead of anime.
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Retlaw83
Goatse Messiah
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 7:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Japanese entertainment has never held any appeal for me. Final Fantasy sucks balls compared to western RPGs.
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Stalagmite
Wandering Hero
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Joined: 26 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 8:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think it's fair to say that most people who dig Japanese shit also think Fallout 3 is spectacular.
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Manoil
Wastelander's Nightmare
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Joined: 22 Feb 2006
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

One of the first reskins was a Hello Kitty Power Armor
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Wolfman Walt
Mamma's Gang member
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Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Posts: 5171
Location: La Grange, Kentucky

PostPosted: Fri Sep 24, 2010 9:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

hoochimama wrote:

According to that link...


A - My sources said otherwise, but I think I get where it was poorly worded about FFIX, so that's my fault and looking through other sources IX did sell less. So from here on out, I'm relying on the best possible source directly, VG Chartz. About FFIX though - it doesn't matter and only serves to boost my argument as IX came out in the same time period that Tofu Man seems to refer to as a golden age. It just, more or less shows my previous point, that even during the height of this "frenzy" a game performed less than expected.

B - Those numbers are still wrong. VG Chartz shows that Final Fantasy XIII has already sold more than FFIX, which was released during the height of Tofu Man's suppossed "Anime era." If what Tofu Man said was true, than FFIX itself should have been a hit and it should never be matched during such a "down turn" in interest.

Something else that I just realized. Final Fantasy XII sold more here than Final Fantasy IX. Infact. FFXII sold more period. Your numbers are, again, wrong according to VG Chartz.

So the question remains. How can apperent, "dwindling interest" in Japanese products currently result in the last 3 (Non MMO) games selling more now in the late 90's when apperently all this anime mania existed? It's strictly not possible under the current theory.

C - I think you guys are failing to realize that they're still moving millions of product and of those product, some of their best sales globally are WITHIN the United States. I don't see how that'd be possible if all of a sudden everyone decided that they didn't care about Japanese products.

I think the truth of the matter is - FFVII is the rare exception and released at just the right time. It had a lot of hype behind it. It was the first JRPG really released on the PS1 (Everyone forgets Wild Arms) and was generally regarded as a revolution in both story telling, gameplay, and graphics by both media outlets and word of mouth. It had, honestly, nothing to do with being from Japan.
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Tofu Man
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 9:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Firstly, thanks for punching those paragraphs, my eyesight isn't getting any better, unfortunately. Now there seems to be a slight misunderstarding regarding my "logic" as you put it. If I may recall my original statement:
Quote:
Er, would it be wrong to say that the novelty effect with things japanese (games, anime and movies) wore out about at the turn of the millenium?

If you'll allow me to clarify this, what I meant by it was that the vulgarization, victim of the increase in availability, if you will, of a product or, indeed, a group of products specific to the location that originated the OP, and most importantly, the NY Times article it is based on, had some impact on said products' sales performance.

To further my point, I, in retrospect, unfortunately, brought up sales figures as part of an attempt to clarify why I would make such a claim. Retrospectively unfortunately, because, in addition to mirroring my claims, such numbers made it clear that besides my claimed "loss of novelty effect", there might be a host of problems not even relating to the titles themselves, which would, in hindsight predictably, only muddle our discussion.

What I did not say, as is not only apparent in my original post, but subsequently in
Quote:
(...)Does that mean I think there's less people buying than there was in the 90's? No.
Does that mean I think there's more people buying? No. (...)

was that I thought it to be the only cause as to why games companies in the far east are in the shitter. I don't think it to be the only cause. I do, however, think it to be a cause.


I never claimed, as you put it
Quote:
(...)a "down turn" in interest(...)
nor did I claim that
Quote:
(...) waining interests were present. (...)


Let's be plain, shall we. The way you addressed my original claim seems to presuppose a level of presumptuousness on my behalf that simply is not there. I'd have to be quite the presumptuous dick (and then some) to adress the state of things by saying something along the lines of "Bah, jap games sell like shit because I don't care anymore.".

And I don't believe I did. If I did, though, I beg your pardon.

I don't believe I did for the single reason that I never enter a debate assuming myself the keeper of the one and only viable truth. Nor did I believe you, or nor would I any other person, for that matter. Let's face it, I could be as travelled as the heads of the European Union, as well as you could be the CEO of Gamestop instead of just a guy behind a counter (which I presume you were by way you spoke about your work experience - I must say myself, apart from dating a girl who did, I've never had the pleasure(?)) and even then the shared value of our experiences wouldn't possibly account for all the small factors needed in order to allow any or ideed both of us to make such a statement. Sharing them would have made us that much wiser to it, though.


As for what constitutes a Japanese game, who can say? What I generally consider to be the a "Japanese game" is based on how they stack up to their non-Japanese competition, namely:

-Visual Novels (but then no-one else really cares about them)

-1on1 Fighters (Street Fighter, Virtua Fighter, Tekken, DoA, the SNK games etc)

-Scrolling Shooters (Radiant Silvergun, Ikaruga, Thunder Force, Gradius, Contra etc)

-3rd Person Action/Adventure (Resident Evil, Onimusha, Ninja Gaiden, that one with the Dante guy, Shinobi etc)

-and finally, (and yes, I'm probably missing a couple of genres or sub-genres) yes, the JRPG (Shining Force, Final Fantasy, Phantasy Star, pretty much everything Square did or does, Golden Sun etc)


Now, while you would argue that
Quote:
(...)It had, honestly, nothing to do with being from Japan.
I would, in fact argue somewhat the opposite.
I am compelled not to ignore the fact that it had, as you mentioned
Quote:
(...)a lot of hype behind it.(...)
as well as being
Quote:
(...)the first JRPG really released on the PS1 (Everyone forgets Wild Arms) (...)
just as well as being
Quote:
(...)a revolution in both story telling, gameplay, and graphics by both media outlets and word of mouth.(...)
all the while also not ignoring the primal concern, in that you could not have a JRPG far removed from its Japanese origin without it ceasing to be a JRPG, even if only in name, and also, per my experience, however limited by time and space, obviously, that though all the correct conditions were in place, it having direct conotations with all the novelty hype surrounding anime and manga, (and it's curious you should mention France, as it had not only a daily anime show on tv as far back as '94 IIRC (Manga Zone on the cable music channel MCM, one which me and another dude who had satellite were "mandated" to record on VHS so we could watch at school, I believe it started out as some sort of fanzine but I'm not sure) as well as the first monthly magazine in Europe, Animeland, besides always beating the rest of Europe to the punch in importing and translating not only manga but anime videos) if only in country of origin alone, that I cannot, in good conscience, assume its sales would have been what they were, if such a novelty interest wasn't present.


I would in fact, and a bit presumptuously at this point, suspect that the conditions that propelled FF to such a success aren't going to replicate themselves, if not uniquely due to, then also due to the fact that the novelty value of things Japanese isn't what it was in the mid 90's.
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Wolfman Walt
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Joined: 15 Mar 2003
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:15 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

After a week of being tasered, pepper sprayed, and gassed, I don't care anymore.
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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Just another week at the prison, then? How's the border patrol job acquisition going?
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Wolfman Walt
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PostPosted: Sat Oct 02, 2010 8:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Not exactly. I went to my correctional SWAT academy. Nothing heard back from Border Patrol yet. Talked to an instructor there that is gonna try to help me get probation and parole though.
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Stalagmite
Wandering Hero
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Good luck, mate.
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Yonmanc
Hero of the Glowing Lands
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Joined: 23 Jun 2009
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Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:31 am Reply with quoteBack to top

How about another prison story Wolf? I have a genuine interest in the subject. Any cannibals or serial killers locked up there?
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Wolfman Walt
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Yonmanc wrote:
Any cannibals or serial killers locked up there?


No cannibals that I know of. Serial killers either, but I'm sure they're there. I don't generally research what a lot of these people did. We have a few pretty bad guys though.

One of my favorites is an inmate who is fucking deathly insane. Used to spar with Muhammad Ali. Killed an inmate with a weight bar for taking his towel. He's fucking crazy and is one of the most dangerous men in the prison, not only because he's crazy, but he is actually really good with his hands due to his boxing training. He also has some of the best quotes I've ever heard. You have not lived until you've heard a grown man scream in a high pitch voice (Whenever he starts acting crazy, he talks in a super high pitched voice) "YOU'VE GOT TO STOP THESE COWS FROM MILKIN IN MY MOUTH!" and "You got to fix the microwave! It keeps jacking off in my coffee!"

My favorite experience with this inmate, mostly because I got to live to tell about it, was when I was serving chow to the lockdown inmates. I come around his wing (And note: He's free to walk around because some genius psychologist decided he was "well" enough to let into a rehabiliation program and off of lock down) and almost finish serving chow when I hear someone just yell "YOU FUCKING NIIIIIIIIIIGGGGEEERRRR!" and a loud bang.

I look around and I see this inmate just slammed the wing door and was moving to the TV. I tell the guy I was with to get let the Sergeant know and that if I didn't make it to tell my imaginary wife that I love her as I go down to greet the inmate. Inmate was walking up to the TV because Nelson Mandela was on it and was just screaming at him/it, "YOU FUCKING swell guy! YOU RAPED A WHITE WOMAN!" He was really up in the TV's face too. Like his nose was touching the screen.

Somehow I convinced him to go to his room and locked his door on him, but I'd be lying if I didn't say I thought I might have atleast ended up in the hospital.
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Stalagmite
Wandering Hero
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Sounds like a fucking picnic and a half.
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Yonmanc
Hero of the Glowing Lands
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 4:41 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wow, perhaps you should switch places with the psychologist, see if that changes their mind.
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Elite Wanderer
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 2:39 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Wolfman Walt wrote:
Actually, the bigger problem I have now adays is Japan going "We want all our games to be Western." If I wanted to play Western games, I'd play Western games. Give me something like Godhand, Japan, not another Fallout 3. I'll take it any day.




Well if you look at the early japanese games they were quite "normal" looking. Not that you could do to much with 8 bit graphics but for example the icon: Super Mario. Sure as hell doesn't look "anime" to me...nor do any of the early nintendo games.

And we all loved them, though they were pure japanese. There is an asian way of making games, that's true. The sparky graphics over every even slight attack. Even in complex strategy games like Three Kingdoms.

But that really does look slightly ridicilous to me. I think there's more to japanese culture and asian culture overall than the classical anime game and anime film.


I think Shenmue is a good example of a japanese conceptual game.
I think they indeed need to move away from the to anime-styled games.
At least partly.
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POOPERSCOOPER
Paparazzi
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Joined: 05 Apr 2003
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Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 5:41 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Seriously, tofu man your writing is pretty hard to read and I don't really grasp your points at all. Sounds like your trying to sound smarter than you really are (my english teacher said that to me so its valid okay) so maybe trying clearing up your writing.

I'm getting ready for work now so I will make my official response later okay.
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Cakester
They call me Bum Tickler


Joined: 22 Jul 2009
Posts: 422

PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

it's alright. i use to make my whole class be awkward in silent when i would raise my hand to demonstrate how i can use every vocabulary word that week we had in a sentence. but even better i could combine words from weeks before and toss in some other ones.

the teacher just... was like.. um.. ok.. thats good.

i think the girl next to me thought i was skilled
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Yonmanc
Hero of the Glowing Lands
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Joined: 23 Jun 2009
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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:35 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Then he'd go and ruin it all by taking a shit on his desk and raping a gerbil.
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Cakester
They call me Bum Tickler


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PostPosted: Sun Oct 03, 2010 6:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

she did look like a hamster. but a very cute one
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Tofu Man
Paparazzi
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 04, 2010 4:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

POOPERSCOOPER wrote:
Seriously, Tofu Man, your writing is pretty hard to read and I don't really grasp your point at all. Sounds like you're trying to sound smarter than you really are, (my English teacher said that to me, so it's valid, okay?) so maybe try clearing up your writing.

I'm getting ready for work now so I will make my official response later, okay?

Get a new English teacher.


Naaah, I'm just fuckin' with ya, mate. icon_hug
My only point was that the Japanese culture in general felt like new and exciting to us in the west during the 90's and that that influenced how some of their games fared over here. I think. I can't even remember what I had for lunch yesterday. icon_confused2
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