Duck and Cover Forum Index


Use these links, buy stuff from Amazon and help us out, nubs.
Amazon.com | Amazon.ca | Amazon.co.uk | Amazon.de
  Duck and Cover  •  FAQ  •  Search  •  Memberlist  •  Usergroups   •  Register  •  Profile  •  Log in to check your private messages  •  Log in

 Support DAC!
 Video Interview with Tim Cain part 2 View next topic
View previous topic
Post new topicReply to topic
Author Message
King of Creation
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 20 Dec 2003
Posts: 5103

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 7:51 am Reply with quoteBack to top

[ Person -> Interview ] - More info on Person: Tim Cain

View user's profileSend private messageVisit poster's website
SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2995
Location: Cackalackyland

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

His last line gave me goosebumps.
View user's profileSend private message
jetbaby
Mamma's Gang member
Mamma's Gang member


Joined: 18 Jan 2004
Posts: 4186
Location: Magical Island

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 8:59 am Reply with quoteBack to top

:mancrush:
View user's profileSend private message
PiP
Last, Best Hope of Humanity
Last, Best Hope of Humanity


Joined: 18 Apr 2003
Posts: 5025
Location: Brighton beach

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 9:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

good stuff salute
View user's profileSend private messageSend e-mailVisit poster's website
Yonmanc
Hero of the Glowing Lands
Hero of the Glowing Lands


Joined: 23 Jun 2009
Posts: 2224
Location: Manchester, UK

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 12:06 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Great interview. Thought we'd have to wait longer for the second part.
View user's profileSend private message
Cimmerian Nights
Striding Hero
Striding Hero


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 1367
Location: The Roche Motel

PostPosted: Mon Jul 05, 2010 3:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

When I hear him describe the RPG elements he had meant for the series to be based upon in the first interview, then hear the thematic content he infused it with... Without him, and without those concepts, Fallout is fucking dead. Buried.

Quote:
His last line gave me goosebumps.

I think Fallout and the RPG industry as a whole has become a victim of it's own success.

The ending of the interview he basically spells out how marketing and sales starting enforcing design constraints on the folks who already had a winning formula. And shit has slid further downhill in the last 10 years. Then the license ends up in the hands of some unscrupulous trend-whores like Bethesda who pander to the XBox crowd and you might as well kiss the design concepts that Fallout was based upon goodbye.

That was the death of Fallout and most cRPGs. The concepts it stood for even back in 1997 apparently are dead to the mainstream and developers without a spine, who don't design but instead let marketing dictate their design based upon marketing figures and simple-to-understand game concepts.


Tim Cain is really candid in his interviews, these were great. Compare this to a Todd Howard/Pete Hines stroke-job where it's all hollow promises and lip-service to design concepts they cannot grasp.

Cain and Chris Taylor - without them, it's just a name on an empty box.
View user's profileSend private message
Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 11:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Notice how his smile dies when he starts talking about Fo2. Kinda makes you feel like shit if you thought it was better than the first one. What goes around comes around I guess...

Quote:
The ending of the interview he basically spells out how marketing and sales starting enforcing design constraints on the folks who already had a winning formula.


And now I know the why on that brilliant quote - "Marketing people are the bane of the universe. And I used to think it was lawyers." - though it still made for one heck of a game.
View user's profileSend private message
Kashluk
Grand MF
Grand MF


Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7498

PostPosted: Tue Jul 06, 2010 12:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

" It felt that in a big way our success, because we were successful, we were losing part of the game to a larger group that had bigger plans for it. "

- Tim Cain

Same goes for other forms of entertainment (industry): http://io9.com/5438275/district-9s-neill-blomkamp-explains-why-he-wont-make-big-budget-movies
View user's profileSend private message
cazsim83
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 19 Jul 2007
Posts: 2978

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 10:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

who the shit is matt whatever and why did he get an interview? Get your shit together, everyone else!

also - lmao @ "I think (Bethesda) captured subway stations really well (In FO3)"
View user's profileSend private message
Kashluk
Grand MF
Grand MF


Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7498

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 12:47 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

cazsim83 wrote:
also - lmao @ "I think (Bethesda) captured subway stations really well (In FO3)"


It's hard to be nice to your current employer and honest at the same time.
View user's profileSend private message
Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 1:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm not sure he isn't just joking. If he lived in the area and all the praise he offers is regarding those bland, repetitive subway stations then maybe he is.

Kashluk wrote:


It's hard to be nice to your current employer and honest at the same time.

Not that I don't agree with you here, but is everyone under the employ of shitesda? I've yet to see someone from inside the industry call Fo3 for what it is. All they ever do is praise the graphical achievement. Nothing on the terse animations, nothing on the bad shooting mechanics, nothing on the writing, well I could go on, but I'm preaching to the choir here.
How hard can it be for someone in the industry (or even around it, but i'm not even mentioning """"professional"""" reviewers) to actually be, you know, honest?
View user's profileSend private message
Cimmerian Nights
Striding Hero
Striding Hero


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 1367
Location: The Roche Motel

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 2:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tofu Man wrote:
I'm not sure he isn't just joking. If he lived in the area and all the praise he offers is regarding those bland, repetitive subway stations then maybe he is.

I have to agree, I've only been to DC 3 or 4 times, but the subway station ceilings are the only thing that really have a modern DC look. The high, vaulted ceilings over the platforms with the honey-comb indentations. That's the ceiling pattern. So yeah, they got that right. Kudos.


In typical Bethesda fashion they cookie cutter the same fucking subway station each time.
View user's profileSend private message
Kashluk
Grand MF
Grand MF


Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7498

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 3:10 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tofu Man wrote:
Not that I don't agree with you here, but is everyone under the employ of shitesda? I've yet to see someone from inside the industry call Fo3 for what it is. All they ever do is praise the graphical achievement. Nothing on the terse animations, nothing on the bad shooting mechanics, nothing on the writing, well I could go on, but I'm preaching to the choir here.
How hard can it be for someone in the industry (or even around it, but i'm not even mentioning """"professional"""" reviewers) to actually be, you know, honest?


It's a company on the grow. Potential future partners don't want to anger such a giant, and most of the 'pro' reviewers are on their payroll. That's the state of the industry, man.
View user's profileSend private message
Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Jul 07, 2010 5:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Cimmerian Nights wrote:

In typical Bethesda fashion they cookie cutter the same fucking subway station each time.

And now you know why they went with DC rather than Moscow icon_wink

Kashluk wrote:

It's a company on the grow. Potential future partners don't want to anger such a giant, and most of the 'pro' reviewers are on their payroll. That's the state of the industry, man.

Add to that that they have the least demanding customer base I can think of, and all of a sudden the average gamer is being told what he likes, becoming more undemanding as time passes, and essencially allowing an industry that should provide them with what they want to become a cartel who churns out crap that they think they love, failing to realise they've been turned to acritical -free PR providing- fanboy drones, thus leaving the rest of us who enjoy a decent game once in a while with a thumb up our arses waiting for the messiah. /rant

Feel like writing a new editorial yet Cimmerian? icon_mrhappy
View user's profileSend private message
Cimmerian Nights
Striding Hero
Striding Hero


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 1367
Location: The Roche Motel

PostPosted: Thu Jul 08, 2010 4:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Tofu Man wrote:

Feel like writing a new editorial yet Cimmerian? icon_mrhappy

I liked where your rant was headed actually.

I'll write another one if Uncle Blargh promises to babysit my kids for a few hours.
View user's profileSend private message
Username
Elite Wanderer
Elite Wanderer


Joined: 12 Jun 2010
Posts: 655

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 1:54 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I actually wonder. Did anyone take the duck and cover crap seriously back then?
View user's profileSend private message
Cimmerian Nights
Striding Hero
Striding Hero


Joined: 20 Aug 2004
Posts: 1367
Location: The Roche Motel

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I think America was much more trusting of authority figures, politicians and the gov't in general pre-Kennedy assasination, pre-Nixon resignation, pre-Viet Nam.

I suppose that's a cyclical trend though, since the founding fathers built in safeguards to account for unscrupulous fuckwads.

Unless you were black, Uncles Sam took care of business for you in the 40s and 50s. When shit is going smooth, people are less likely to be so suspicious and discerning.
View user's profileSend private message
Retlaw83
Goatse Messiah
Goatse Messiah


Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 5327

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 2:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

My parents were alive during the Cold War. According to them they thought the Russians could launch nukes at any time, and school children knew damn well duck and cover wouldn't save them - they had regular drills.
View user's profileSend private message
Kashluk
Grand MF
Grand MF


Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7498

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 7:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Retlaw83 wrote:
My parents were alive during the Cold War. According to them they thought the Russians could launch nukes at any time, and school children knew damn well duck and cover wouldn't save them - they had regular drills.


My parents and grandparents didn't really bother with thinking about the nuclear war since everybody would die then anyway. They were more afraid of 'traditional' Soviet land invasion, since the last try was still fresh in memory.
View user's profileSend private message
Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Fri Jul 09, 2010 6:07 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Cimmerian Nights wrote:
I liked where your rant was headed actually.

I'll write another one if Uncle Blargh promises to babysit my kids for a few hours.


"How much I hate today's computer games" by Tofu Man.
You know, somehow I don't see it being a success in the 12-18 y/o demographic. Blargh better get a move on, then. icon_wink

Kashluk wrote:
My parents and grandparents didn't really bother with thinking about the nuclear war since everybody would die then anyway. They were more afraid of 'traditional' Soviet land invasion, since the last try was still fresh in memory.


As a curiosity, Kash, anyone in your family felt or saw anything when they detonated that 50Mton bomb ? Or is all the "breaking windows in Finland" thing just internet exaggeration?
View user's profileSend private message
Display posts from previous:      
Post new topicReply to topic


Jump to:  



View next topic
View previous topic
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group