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Smiley
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 3186
Location: Denmark. Smiley-land.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 1:53 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Dear god, a semi-serious debate, on this forum?
Could it be?
Will it be?

I'm going to try, anyway, because I value the input from a lot of you.

Here in Denmark, we've gotten a proposal that complete bans smoking outside..
Naturally, smokers are having a fucking fit about it.
It'll likely lead to ban smoking on private property as well, or at least if you have children or pets...


I'd like to know a few things:
What's your own smoking history?
How do you feel about this proposal?


I'm a non-smoker, or at least very very casual one. Did it for a year, quit it.
I was subjected to passive smoking by my mother for 19 years, and I rarely complained or cared. It didn't bother me other than I was/still am worried for my mothers health.
My obsessions and addictions lie in merchandise(whore) and gaming, not narcotics or even alcohol, though I do enjoy beer as well as the next man.
I can appreciate a good puff now and then, and I can certainly understand why people smoke and need to continue.


If you can't stand or if you're allergic to smoking, shouldn't it still be up to you to ask people to smoke outside tight spaces(bus-stops etc), and if they refuse, move away?

I feel the proposal is arrogant and "dumbing" down the responsibility of people.
There's common courtesy for smokers and non-smokers alike, and I don't see why a law is required to make the decision for us.
Also, who will regulate? The police?

We have them doing all kinds of other stupid shit already, we need them to catch bad guys and beat the living shit out of punk-ass kids who can't behave themselves, not to give smokers a warning and check up on who called someone else a nigga on the interweb or not.
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Thor Kaufman
Mamma's Gang member
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 5092

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Smiley wrote:

We have them doing all kinds of other stupid shit already, we need them to catch bad guys and beat the living shit out of punk-ass kids who can't behave themselves, not to give smokers a warning and check up on who called someone else a nigga on the interweb or not.
pretty much, but not going to happen

The police is there to harass the civilised people because they won't act up. The pigs might get hurt if they fought some real crime instead so they invent stupid bullshit crimes instead.
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Dreadnought
I lied
I lied


Joined: 09 May 2007
Posts: 4003

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Who the fuck cares about Denmark? It's like the Canada of Europe. Ban Denmark.
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Thor Kaufman
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:54 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Problem is, there are more and more Denmarks in the world
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VasikkA
No more Tuna
No more Tuna


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
Posts: 8711

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 2:56 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ban/no ban, doesn't bother me either way. Even if I were a smoker, I'd still have the alternative of not obeying. :free soul:

What really annoys me is people complaining/protesting about their individual rights and big brother society and shit. Let's face it, you can do whatever the fuck you want to, or at least enough, in a Western society. If there's a demand for something, you can bet there's always a supplier or a workaround for it. If you get caught doing something illegal, blame yourself. If you're jailed, then you probably shouldn't have done it in the first place. The rules and regulations are for your own safety, or something. icon_chew
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Smiley
Righteous Subjugator
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 3186
Location: Denmark. Smiley-land.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 3:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Don't forget that these bans spread across countries. before you know it, you're hit as well.
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cazsim83
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 19 Jul 2007
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 5:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Arizona just got a statewide ban from smoking indoors - you heard the usually bull about secondhand smoke, babies, etc - now you can't even smoke in a bar/pub!

Also, you can't smoke usually within 100 ft of a building as well, and you can't smoke on the hospital grounds or a school (regardless of age)

IMO it's just a way for the government to continue eating away at your rights. if a business owner wants to let people smoke in his shop, I don't care if it's a clothing retailer, it's the owner's property, and his rules on that conduct should be allowed. The consumer shops with their wallet, purchasing where they feel comfortable, respected, etc - and since California is one of our most liberal states, the recent influx of them to our fair State helped that particular proposition get passed.

Don't know if that helps Smiley but there it is.

p.s. - if the Californians don't like their own state enough to actually move away from it, why do they bring their ideologies here??? (I'm not talking to the ones who stayed in Cali, obviously you guys like super high prices for everything *wink*)
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rabidpeanut
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Joined: 11 Jun 2004
Posts: 1617
Location: On top of blargh's mom.

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:03 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well if they banned weed which is MUCH less harmful dont think that the entire world wont have banned tabacco before long.
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Thor Kaufman
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

prohibition laws are not supposed to make sense. They are there to test how much shit people take.
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Dreadnought
I lied
I lied


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PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 9:29 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ciggies are pointless. They should ban them world wide.
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OnTheBounce
TANSTAAFL
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 2257
Location: Grafenwoehr, Oberpfalz, Bayern, Deutschland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 08, 2008 11:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Personally, I've been smoking for almost 22 years at a pretty much constant rate of 1-1/2 packs a day. The sad thing is that I can out-run and out-bike most people I know, especially those in my age group.

I'm getting pretty sick and tired of all of the smoking bans, and I think it's pretty ironic that the US of A, so-called Leader of the Free World (tm) is leading the crusade against smoking.

I'm in Germany and I was appalled that when I returned from Iraq they had jumped on the anti-smoking bandwagon and banned smoking in public places like airports and train stations. One of the great things about getting off a plane in Germany as opposed to the US of A was that you could almost instantly light up in one of the smoking areas that they had about every 50m, not to mention that you didn't have to sit in a glass cage like some caged beast.

A ban on smoking in restaurants and bars went into effect on 01 JAN 08 and I have to say that it's put a crimp in my enjoyment of Europe, although a lot of bars/clubs have gone the "private" route by selling you a membership for a small fee (usually around 3 Euro) which means you can smoke in them.

I can understand the bans to a certain extent, especially in public locations. My addiction -- and it is an addiction -- to nicotine shouldn't really be forced on anyone. What I don't like is this attitude that is behind the bans. Essentially that we should all lead wholesome/healthy lives, go work punctually, be productive and keep the local stock exchange in the black.

NEWSFLASH: my life is MINE, not the ECONOMY'S!!!

This conversation reminds me of George Carlin's bit about immune systems and why we shouldn't coddle our kids on You are All Diseased...

As for Arizona's smoking ban...well, sounds yet like another reason not to go home when I'm done playing pattycake w/Uncle Sam...then again it's getting like this all over the place...

OTB
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Smiley
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 3186
Location: Denmark. Smiley-land.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 1:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Pretty much what I expected, so far no sane people I've talked to have backed up the ban.

It's downright scary how naive some people are, how they need these kind of laws to make their trouble go away..

These luxury issues are becomming obnoxious. When people don't have more concerns than making sure they get their food every day and their account is balanced, they start looking for issues to worry themselves about.

I'm not saying anything new, and you all know this, but after talking with people who support the ban out of egotistic agendas, and some are downright fighting for it fanatically... I don't know. I thought the general populace was smarter than this.

I guess not.
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S4ur0n27
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 3:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm a non smoker so I might be biased, but here you can't drink alcohol on the street, only in special designated places(read bars or restaurants) or in private places. It just makes sense that the same is applied to cigarettes.

Add the fact that it can damage people's health, makes even more sense.
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johnnygothisgun
Hero of the Desert
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Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 4:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

i tend to agree with susan. ive been pretty pleased since smoking was banned in restaurants across the state. i dont enjoy sucking down smoke with my meal and i particularly dont enjoy leaving with the smell on my clothes and in my nose.

am i biased as a non-smoker? of course i am. but the burden is not on me to give good reasons for someone else to stop destructive, irritating and unnecessary behavior. the burden is on the perpetrator of that behavior to give me good reasons for why i should have put up with it, and i dont buy any of the arguments. theres nothing that irks me more than walking down the sidewalk and getting a huge puff right in my face from somebody who thinks its their right to ignore my rights

i dont care if someone wishes to smoke, thats their choice. but i never want to be affected by their decision, just as i never press my habits on others. as for bans on smoking in the home - i dont agree with them on principle but there are certainly circumstances that warrant further consideration. is it legal for you to violently beat your children in the home? then neither, perhaps, should it be legal for you to give them cancer

and if one more cazsim-esque moron tries to call second hand smoke dangers a load of bs in my presence i will most definitely ram my automobile through their front door. are you truly that dumb? were you bred to be a moron for some specific purpose?
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OnTheBounce
TANSTAAFL
TANSTAAFL


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 2257
Location: Grafenwoehr, Oberpfalz, Bayern, Deutschland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 7:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

One of the things I think people in favor of smoking bans overlook is the (rather obvious) question of, "Where does it stop?"

Is smoking "neccesary"? No more than playing video games is. Of course, most people will say that playing video games isn't harming anyone. However, you're probably overlooking the fact that you're using electricity, and most electricity is still generated by burning coal. So the hardcore gamer is also giving people cancer/causing air pollution. Ergo we should ban all "unnecessary" activities that use electricity. Say goodbye to your DVD player, and your mom's 12" purple-headed vibrator while you're at it.

As for the smell...well, I don't care for the smell of most perfumes (which includes cologne, which is nothing more than perfume marketed to men), especially the cheaper varieties that people seem to apply with a ladle. That doesn't mean that I want the wearing of perfume in public banned.

OTB

PS Dreadnought is pointless. We should ban him worldwide...
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Stainless
Living Legend
Living Legend


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 3038
Location: Melbourne, Futureland

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 8:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I smoke fairly rarely, depends usually on occasion (meeting up with old friends who smoke, etc). Here smoking is banned from restaurants/pubs as well as in enclosed spaces (so covered sections of a train platform for example, but you can walk out from the roofed section and light up), and it's never overly bothered me. Smoking only rubs me the wrong way when the wind blows some of it straight into my face.

I've gotta admit though, that I do enjoy going to a place to get something to eat, and not tasting it with the meal. As for it extending to all out door areas and homes, that's just getting silly. As long as people clean up after themselves and aren't burning the cigie butts into people for shits and giggles, it's all dandy. I know I'd be pissed if people started banning my ability to drink a beer as soon as I wake up in the morning.

It's actually been one of those surprising things that when I left school nearly everyone smoked, and now that I'm returning to school not a single person does.
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Smiley
Righteous Subjugator
Righteous Subjugator


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 3186
Location: Denmark. Smiley-land.

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:18 am Reply with quoteBack to top

johnnygothisgun wrote:
theres nothing that irks me more than walking down the sidewalk and getting a huge puff right in my face from somebody who thinks its their right to ignore my rights


Assholes are assholes, whether they puff a cloud in your face or hit you with their shoulder on the sidewalk because they don't want to move...
I wouldn't say it's reserved for smokers..

Do you honestly get "hit" by smoke like that often?
Not looking for numbers or anything to nitpick at, but in the end, doesn't it just bother you that some are like this, and that it reflects on most smokers, because you can probably smell the smoke whenever one is near, rather than purposely getting hit?

No one appreciates rotten behavior, but should people be spared from this crap, or should they continue to fend for themselves?
What do you think?

Quote:
then neither, perhaps, should it be legal for you to give them cancer


Like I said earlier, I lived with a smoker most of my life and I have no cancer. Even though smoking is a more direct effect, shouldn't the same be said for air emissions from any kind of motorized traffic, or like OTB says, any kind of electronics?

What I'm trying to get at, is that in the end is it that the healthrisk is so dangerous, or is mostly because it annoys people, rather than harm them?

Quote:
and if one more cazsim-esque moron tries to call second hand smoke dangers a load of bs in my presence i will most definitely ram my automobile through their front door.


Sorry to interrogate you with the "quote wars", but I'd appreciate your input...

Last one; I haven't been able to find any proof/evidence, that second hand smoking is as bad as it's left to believe.
Here, the deathtoll is yearly 2000 people (out of 5mil.) who dies from second hand smoke.
But then again, they rate you as a victim if you've just been near a smoker no matter the length of time you were exposed.
"Hey, if it's lung-cancer, it's gotta be second hand smoke"
The same argument we've heard for school shootings..
"He once touched a video-game!"

In the end, I believe there's an obvious healthrisk, but isn't it probably majorly exaggerated, in an attempt to make more people quit?


OnTheBounce wrote:
As for the smell...well, I don't care for the smell of most perfumes (which includes cologne, which is nothing more than perfume marketed to men), especially the cheaper varieties that people seem to apply with a ladle. That doesn't mean that I want the wearing of perfume in public banned.


I used the very same argument yesterday against someone...
I'm allergic to most perfumes, so when some kid, be it either gender, enters the bus covered in perfume, I gag and have to get out to breathe.
And as you're saying, even if it poses a risk directly to me, I don't want it banned, because I know not every other person has the same reaction.
And it can't be any kind of healthy, to actually breathe that stuff...
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Thor Kaufman
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Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 5092

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 9:57 am Reply with quoteBack to top

OnTheBounce wrote:
"Where does it stop?"
Exactly, the eternal question.

Smiley wrote:

Like I said earlier, I lived with a smoker most of my life and I have no cancer. Even though smoking is a more direct effect, shouldn't the same be said for air emissions from any kind of motorized traffic, or like OTB says, any kind of electronics?
I was just to say the same. Life is a big health risk in its own, motorized traffic is definitely one of the worst, it damages the lungs via the exhausts, damages hearing, induces stress and some people even die by accidents. Smoking is nothing compared to that. Besides, every drug should be allowed to consume, anywhere, of course. Ehue icon_flamed

Smoking is pointless and a thoroughly shitty addiction but if people want to harm themselves, it's up to them jeez. Other people might be slightly harmed in the process, but that's the crutches of every society. Damn, many people just annoy me more by their lingo, looks or smells, but again. Where does it end?

Just look at Britain where normal citizens get harassed for throwing litter around or political correctness etc etc. Come to think of it, a big part of today's world is so sick and full of shit with political correctness, the smoking ban pretty much fits the profile. Be a good boy, don't do drugs, don't have bad feelings, be a drone ffs. OBEY CONSUME
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negullah
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 13 Aug 2006
Posts: 40
Location: Pripyat

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 12:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

So living in somewhat of a third world country does have its benefits. I can smoke almost wherever I want whenever I want, and I can't see this changing any time soon. Politicians are way too busy sucking our money and each other off.
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johnnygothisgun
Hero of the Desert
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Joined: 30 Aug 2003
Posts: 1522

PostPosted: Wed Jul 09, 2008 6:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

come on guys, you can do better than that
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