Gamebanshee has a Lionheart Q&A

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sat Jul 20, 2002 11:27 pm

[ -> N/A]

In the I should have posted this last night but forgot news front, <a href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/">Gamebanshee</a> has posted an <A href="http://www.gamebanshee.com/interviews/l ... terview</a> with Mr. Ion about <a href="http://lionheart.blackisle.com/">Lionheart</a>. Here's a bit of it: <blockquote> GB: Tell us a little bit about Reflexive's Velocity Engine. How does it compare to other two-dimensional graphic engines, such as BioWare's Infinity Engine? Ion Hardie: The Velocity Engine is a robust proprietary Reflexive gaming engine that has been used in previous gaming titles including Zax: the Alien Hunter and Star Trek: Away Team. We are using it for Lionheart as an isometric engine to render 2D backgrounds while real-time converting 3D models into 2D images. This allows us to maintain anti- aliasing with our 3D characters and allows for 3D characters to be blended perfectly into every scene. The engine has the added benefit of affording us extensive amount of equipment changes. The Velocity Engine also gives us the power to modify the ground in real-time, making lava or acid literally chase you through a given level. If you had a chance to play Zax, you most likely were shocked to find yourself in the position of having lava eat the very ground beneath your feet. If you were lucky enough to avoid that horrifying experience, consider yourself warned as you explore the worlds of Lionheart. As far as comparisons with other engines go, each has their strengths. I will let gamers decide for themselves when we ship. </blockquote> Hmmm.. I wonder if an engine that uses huge bitmaps instead of tiles is technically still an "isometric" engine.

Red · Post by **Red** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 1:05 am

wasn't that already posted? Or maybe it's just that I saw it on another site...

Anyhow, what defines it's "isometricness" are the units in which the characters can move...

Take static for example, it had a simple Excel database describing wether or not you could walk thorugh each "tile", even though the models were 3d and the bitmaps were huge chunks of clever weirdness. It's still an 2D isometric engine.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 2:00 am

Isometric is simply just the camera angle fellas

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sun Jul 21, 2002 12:51 pm

Isometric is simply just the camera angle fellas

No, isometric is a projection, not a camera angle. It's an attempt to define depth in 2D by essentially picking a series of view angles around a 3D object and mapping them on a plane.

Red has a slight point about how things move being affected by this projection as well. It's not simply a matter of moving from Tile A to Tile B, since in isometric projections, there are offset values associated with how things line up.

In fact, typical <a href="http://www.millville.org/Workshops_f/ke ... >isometric projections are orthographic</a>, which means each tile is basically a "diamond" shape. This means that when a character within this projection tends to move forward from what he would see as a square, he's actually moving diagonally on the screen.

Since most isometric engines are actually just tile areas where every other row is staggered, this means you have to take care with the way the person moves. If he's moving from a direct index row to a staggered row, you can simply +/- the y value of the array. However, when he's moving from staggered to direct indexed in the same direction, you have to iterate not only the y-value, but also the x-value as well.

Now, take the Velocity or Infinity Engine case. Basically, these are nothing more than huge images that are cut in to bite sized pieces with a flag table saying a player can and can not walk there. There's no need to worry about how the project affects movement. There's no cartesian convertions needed, and no tile staggering.

If it were a simple camera angle, none of that extra work would be required.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 12:23 am

Fair enough...yes technically, isometric refers to the relationship X,Y and Z have to each other, be it 1:1 ratio or 2.1:1, which games use normally. 1:1 simply means that all three axis of equal length( using the concept of equal length lines representing X,Y,Z )will look equal from your perspective, thus flattening out your view(i.e. orthographic)

We are currently developing an 3D RPG( one that all of you guys here will be very interested in...at least I hope!

{hint: its not fantasy})that is isometric, but only as far as a generic description of the camera angle. When we blurt out 'isometric' these days, we refer to the 3/4 to full top down camera angle, and not the technical representation of 'iso'. More accurately I should probably just stick to calling it 3/4 perspective when describing my camera angle, since it's obvious there are people here who really know their 'proverbial' shit.

Good call Saint, you forced me to check myself and I'll make sure I'm more accurate in the future.

Sincerely,
EvoG

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 3:22 am

EvoG wrote:We are currently developing an 3D RPG( one that all of you guys here will be very interested in...at least I hope! {hint: its not fantasy})that is isometric, but only as far as a generic description of the camera angle. When we blurt out 'isometric' these days, we refer to the 3/4 to full top down camera angle, and not the technical representation of 'iso'. More accurately I should probably just stick to calling it 3/4 perspective when describing my camera angle, since it's obvious there are people here who really know their 'proverbial' shit.

OpenGL should have some projection transforms that you could use to make an actual 3D isometric game. CADs use these projections because engineers tend to like them for mechanical drawings.

I was talking strictly about isometric in 2D though. I'm not sure what real advantage something like a oblique projection would be in 3D, but it has uses in 2D isometric. Divine Divinity and Fallout used oblique transforms because they both have hexagonal movement as opposed to the octal style most games have. I don't think you'd want that in 3D unless you just really, really wanted that look.

As for the RPG.. Bring it on. The more RPGs, the better. As long as it's not D&D-AD-INFINITUM or Tolkien Rehash, that's good news!

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 3:28 am

EvoG, what dev house are you with? How soon til you guys make an announcement on your project?

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 7:10 am

Saint...just a quick note, the game isn't iso in any technical terms. Its full 3D with a real camera and a real FOV.

...and no, no way, uh uh, is it Fantasy in any medieval sense of the term. It is pure post-apocalyptic.

Killzig...check your email shortly

Killzig · Post by **Killzig** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 8:02 am

is it there yet?

PS - you want a title? SDF isn't really becoming of you..

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 10:33 am

EvoG wrote:Saint...just a quick note, the game isn't iso in any technical terms. Its full 3D with a real camera and a real FOV.

I was just babbling.

...and no, no way, uh uh, is it Fantasy in any medieval sense of the term. It is pure post-apocalyptic.

Well, you can still be high fantasy and post apocalyptic. DarkSun, for example, is a well done high fantasy, post apoc RPG.

Killzig...check your email shortly

Mail FASTER. Suspence annoys us!

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Mon Jul 22, 2002 1:04 pm

You know, I don't even think I know what my Rank stands for! What is SDF? Well, if you have a suggestion, by all means, I'd be flattered. Anyway, you should have your email( again my apologizes for the delay ) and I hope this will be a fruitful venture for all of us!

Later guys!

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 2:42 am

EvoG wrote:You know, I don't even think I know what my Rank stands for! What is SDF?

"Some Dumb Fuck" Basically, someone that's new on the DAC forum.

EvoG · Post by **EvoG** » Tue Jul 23, 2002 3:01 am

Ugh...maybe I do want something less offensive... hehehe