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 New info about Fallout PnP View next topic
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JHMN
Vault Dweller
Vault Dweller


Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 6:22 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

[ Community -> Article ] - More info on Person: Jason Mical | More info on Game: Fallout: Pencil and Paper

The new article on Jason's blog ends with this:

So, fellow Fallout fans, I contacted my friend Ausir who runs the Vault. Although I've toyed with the idea of working on a new version of the Fallout PnP, unless it was a paying gig I couldn't justify the time. Mercenary I know, but them's the shakes these days. So I turned over all my PnP materials to Ausir to convert to a Wiki, and the result is this: the Fallout PnP game Wiki, completely open-source and available to the fans to edit, take apart, restructure, correct, and change as they see fit. It's not complete yet, and Ausir has some materials I don't have, but I encourage everyone to check it out.

Additionally, as I have been asked for these on several occasions, I zipped up the last version of the document I worked on along with all other Fallout PnP-related items I could find and uploaded them to my website. Get that file
here. Ausir promises me that a larger, updated .zip with more materials will be available on the Wiki soon, at which point I'll either mirror that file or simply take mine down (but I'll update when I do.)

The resources in this .zip:

  • Fallout PnP "Unlimited" (a never-released, partially completed revision) .doc format
  • Psionics rules, .doc format
  • Great Wastes sourcebook, .doc format
  • The Enclave 2.0 sourcebook, .PDF format
  • Tribes sourcebook, .PDF format
  • Waterworld total conversion, .txt format

It's worth to read the whole text, interesting approach towards Fallout 3 presented.

Spotted @ No Mutants Allowed

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Koki
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 7:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What? Fallout PnP is shit.
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Killzig
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1724
Location: The Wastes

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 8:26 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

his blog post is pretty lulzy.
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S4ur0n27
Mamma's Gang member
Mamma's Gang member


Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 15135
Location: Motherfucking Plateau

PostPosted: Mon Jul 30, 2007 9:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Psionic rules? Waterworld? :kevincostner:

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Mechanurgist
Strider
Strider


Joined: 19 Feb 2007
Posts: 735
Location: Liminal State 2

PostPosted: Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mical's Fallout PnP was great, though a tad complicated for my taste. Nice to see this project going open-source, so to speak. Good catch, Ausir!
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Machiavelli
Vault Scion
Vault Scion


Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 200
Location: The Shoe

PostPosted: Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:19 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I had fun with Micals Fallout PnP, but I agree that it was too complicated and made it difficult to get new players interested when all that D20 shit was around and most of them already knew that system.
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Matt_Helm
Glutton Creeper designer


Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:14 am Reply with quoteBack to top

There are a couple of goal for FOPNP. One is to produce some alternate rules that streamline the game a bit for those that want this sort of thing, the second is to introduce new material that would allow using the SPECIAL system in settings other than Fallout, and the third is to try to bring some logic to the screwed up FO firearms damage system.
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S4ur0n27
Mamma's Gang member
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Joined: 01 Jun 2002
Posts: 15135
Location: Motherfucking Plateau

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Streamline the game? Care to explain?
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Koki
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 19 Aug 2003
Posts: 2550

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 1:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Roll for Soil Erosion
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Machiavelli
Vault Scion
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Joined: 25 Jul 2007
Posts: 200
Location: The Shoe

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 9:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The original game was almost a complete copy of the system for the computer, so it was complicated to follow at times with a pencil and paper. I really don't see how it could be streamlined though without it losing its fallouty feel.
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Ausir
The Vault Overseer
The Vault Overseer


Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It is possible to simplify the combat system while keeping the character system largely intact, I don't think it would lose the Fallout feel.
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Matt_Helm
Glutton Creeper designer


Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

After going through the rules the two points I am looking at are the rather baroque aiming penalty for lighting conditions and armour vs damage. The lighting chart can be easily simplified. The armour is another question.

Fallout armour has both a flat damage subtraction as well as a percentile damage mitigation. I need to crunch some numbers to see if I can reduce this to just a new flat damage subtraction value (taking into account the old percentile mitigation) to remove the need to use a calculator every time someone takes damage.

The other issue is the myriad of categories of damage types. Normal (physical), laser, plasma, fire, and explosive were used in FO 1 and 2. FOT used normal, energy, fire, gas, electric, and explosive. I am considering reducing all this to physical, energy, and laser.

One thing to rememer, all this will be presented as optional changes from the canonical presentation. If someone likes using calculators for every shot they'll be able to do so, same with using the original group of damage types.

The issue dogging me right now is Sneak skill and what controlled NPCs being able to notice or not notice the sneaking individual. There is no Perception skill of any kind and adding new skills has problems as the amount of skill points for advancement are fixed. Using the PE stat means that a character can never improve their perception ability, something I am not really happy with. I'm already adding one skill, Athletics, for use with situations involving climbing, jumping, running, etc. The FO games didn't have to worry about this as there was no way to do any of that within the game engine.
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Ausir
The Vault Overseer
The Vault Overseer


Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You might want to look at J.E. Sawyer's Simple system (which IMHO is too simplified, actually):

http://pnp.fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Simple:_Main_Page

Since his original site is down, I mirrored it in the wiki as well.
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JHMN
Vault Dweller
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Joined: 15 Jan 2005
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Matt_Helm wrote:
Normal (physical), laser, plasma, fire, and explosive were used in FO 1 and 2. FOT used normal, energy, fire, gas, electric, and explosive.


Not really, there was Electrical Damage in F 1 & 2, although this value was not visible for the player - take a look: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Damage.
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Matt_Helm
Glutton Creeper designer


Joined: 27 Dec 2002
Posts: 66

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 10:55 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Ausir wrote:
You might want to look at J.E. Sawyer's Simple system (which IMHO is too simplified, actually):

http://pnp.fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Simple:_Main_Page

Since his original site is down, I mirrored it in the wiki as well.


I'll mine it for ideas but I think he veered too far from the original, most of the original game is not hard to play out in a PnP environment.

JHMN wrote:
Matt_Helm wrote:
Normal (physical), laser, plasma, fire, and explosive were used in FO 1 and 2. FOT used normal, energy, fire, gas, electric, and explosive.


Not really, there was Electrical Damage in F 1 & 2, although this value was not visible for the player - take a look: http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Damage.


Interesting, thanks.
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Ausir
The Vault Overseer
The Vault Overseer


Joined: 22 Apr 2002
Posts: 1272
Location: Poland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 02, 2007 11:01 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Matt_Helm wrote:

I'll mine it for ideas but I think he veered too far from the original, most of the original game is not hard to play out in a PnP environment.


It's also worth looking at Sawyer's changes to SPECIAL in Van Buren:

http://fallout.wikia.com/wiki/Van_Buren_SPECIAL

Some of the stuff in Simple is an extension of those changes.
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chang
SDF!
SDF!


Joined: 22 Oct 2006
Posts: 6
Location: Manila

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 2:40 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Matt_Helm wrote:
The issue dogging me right now is Sneak skill and what controlled NPCs being able to notice or not notice the sneaking individual. There is no Perception skill of any kind and adding new skills has problems as the amount of skill points for advancement are fixed. Using the PE stat means that a character can never improve their perception ability, something I am not really happy with.


The Fallout 2 Manual says: "When you are Sneaking, you don’t actually know if the skill is working properly. When you first start Sneaking, and every minute after, the computer rolls against your Sneak skill. If successful, all critters will have their Perception halved when trying to notice you."

Going by this, I'd do it by requiring a check of the sneaking character's sneak skill, followed immediately by a Perception roll on the NPC/PC being snuck upon. If the sneak roll was succesful, the guy being stalked checks at half his Perception. In this case, you could succeed on your sneak skill but still be noticed (the other charcater was extremely perceptive) or fail it and still remain unnoticed (the other guy is oblivious.)

Unfortunately the only way to improve the PE stat is thru perks. (Gain PE or Death Sense; bonus against sneaking characters.)

The problem I have with this was the "check every minute" part of sneaking, how do you determine how long it takes to sneak up on someone? How much time does it take to move 1 meter (measurement of one hex in Fallout) when sneaking?
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Thor Kaufman
Mamma's Gang member
Mamma's Gang member


Joined: 16 Dec 2002
Posts: 5089

PostPosted: Fri Aug 03, 2007 4:02 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

just add in a ninja perk
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