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 RPG Codex summarises FO3 View next topic
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Mr. Teatime
Righteous Subjugator
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Joined: 19 May 2003
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

[ Game -> Editorial ]

Vault Dweller has written up an article for RPG Codex explaining what he sees as the problems with FO3.

Bethesda has moved the game to another coast, which was a smart move. It could have allowed them to make their own version of the Fallout world, to share their vision with players, to make some mistake and get away with them. It was a license to be creative. For Bethesda, it was a license to fuck things up. Big time.

The neo-Fallout setting is loaded with super mutants hiding in dark places and the Brotherhood of Steel stormtroopers protecting the wasteland. Neither group should have been on the east coast, especially in large numbers, for reasons obvious to anyone who had enough patience to finish the first game. Why? Well, according to the first game there was only one Forced Evolutionary Virus (F.E.V.) research facility, that was used to produce super mutants. Since the super mutants were sterile, and most of them and the research facility were destroyed in the first game, nothing short of lame "uh...there was another F.E.V. facility" would explain the super mutants presence in FO3. As for the BoS, it was a small monastery-like organization, very similar to "A Canticle for Leibowitz" monk order, interested only in preserving technology and not being disturbed. Saviors, knights, police, liberators, and the last hope of humanity the Brotherhood of Steel is not.

The article is heavily critical, and I think it makes a lot of points that are difficult to argue with. On the other hand, there are some (unsupported) quotes from Todd Howard in Game Informer that do lend some hope - such as one quest path will cut off others - and Vault Dweller skips on these. No doubt he would claim that Bethsoft made the same claims about Oblivion, which turned out to be close to outright lies (or they simply didn't know how the final product would turn out and were getting over-excited ala Peter Molyneux).

My biggest criticism out of everything is the lack of style and character in the screenshots. We get a generic big scary monster, and a generic gritty post-apocalyptic city. As Vault Dweller says:

Other than lame "HAY! WE R FROM TEH 50'S!!!" posters and boards, there are no traces of either the 50's sci-fi influences or the Fallout art style in the game. Such a shame, and not even because I care about the consistency, but because having a certain style is always better than going with something generic. The biggest problem with the carefully chosen screens is that they lack personality and distinctive character. They could fit any game, from Wolfenstein to Resident Evil.

I'll put up my more detailed thoughts on the GI article later on (probably on my blog rather than here, unless people are especially interested or they're especially coherant), but the general gist is that there's positive mixed with negative, and the negative is given way too much screen-time - where're the examples of dialogue? The mutliple-solution, game-affecting quest lines? - which could lead someone to think that that's where Bethsoft are focusing.

Spotted @ No Mutants Allowed

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PsychoSnipers
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

So when is DAC going to enter into attack mode teabag ?
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Mr. Teatime
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 9:12 am Reply with quoteBack to top

King runs DAC. Me, I've got to think about it some more.
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DaC-Sniper
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 10:29 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Good article, i hope some of the Bethesda devs reads it and maybe they`ll fix some things, because of the critics. They have enough time to fix things. :wishful thinking:
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Stainless
Living Legend
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I loved the obligatory blog advertisement. Just stick it on the site, soapbox status regardless you tend to be more objective then most other articles written on fan sites.


Last edited by Stainless on Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:04 am; edited 1 time in total
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PsychoSnipers
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:03 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I still say its time to unleash the flames.
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Thor Kaufman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

blogs are for fags
j/k yours is cool icon_wink)
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VDweller
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:46 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr. Teatime wrote:
On the other hand, there are some (unsupported) quotes from Todd Howard in Game Informer that do lend some hope - such as one quest path will cut off others - and Vault Dweller skips on these. No doubt he would claim that Bethsoft made the same claims about Oblivion...

I didn't skip on these, and I did stated that Bethesda lied in the past:

"the article insists that the game will be loaded with choices & consequences, branching quests, and other role-playing goodness, but, sadly, no examples are given. Considering Bethesda's fondness to make shit up in order to sell more copies, caution would be strongly advised."

Quote:
or they simply didn't know how the final product would turn out and were getting over-excited ala Peter Molyneux

No. Anyone who followed Morrowind/Oblivion development knows that Bethesda did lie deliberately, making almost the same promises as they did with Fallout 3.
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PsychoSnipers
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 11:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Todd Howard wrote:

The spirit of Fallout - we've missed it
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Dreadnought
I lied
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Joined: 09 May 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Marcus the Super Mutant explains, that it takes a few years to 'make the juices flow again' but Super Mutants can knock up humans. He said it in a way, as if he already witnessed the outcome of such a copulation.

Dear crystal beth:

Add baby super mutants to your upcomming semi-post apocalytic FPS/Patriot simulator.
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Mr. Teatime
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 12:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

VDweller wrote:
Mr. Teatime wrote:
On the other hand, there are some (unsupported) quotes from Todd Howard in Game Informer that do lend some hope - such as one quest path will cut off others - and Vault Dweller skips on these. No doubt he would claim that Bethsoft made the same claims about Oblivion...

I didn't skip on these, and I did stated that Bethesda lied in the past:

"the article insists that the game will be loaded with choices & consequences, branching quests, and other role-playing goodness, but, sadly, no examples are given. Considering Bethesda's fondness to make shit up in order to sell more copies, caution would be strongly advised."

Quote:
or they simply didn't know how the final product would turn out and were getting over-excited ala Peter Molyneux

No. Anyone who followed Morrowind/Oblivion development knows that Bethesda did lie deliberately, making almost the same promises as they did with Fallout 3.


Have they ever responded to these contradictions? I seem to remember something about the radiant AI being too ambitious or something.
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PsychoSnipers
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 2:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Face it teabag, they're full of shit, lie to get good PR, and cant be trusted.

Go Go DAC attack mode.
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Thor Kaufman
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:00 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

but what I mean who is DAC attack mode?

*nerd rage building up* angry
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Stainless
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think Killzig is, but even he seems more flaccid lately. Maybe we're just all getting old.
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Brother None
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Mr. Teatime wrote:
Have they ever responded to these contradictions? I seem to remember something about the radiant AI being too ambitious or something.


No. The official Bethesda reply is that there are no contradictions, those quotes are taken out of context and the Codex is evil.

My thread on exactly this topic got locked for being "flamebait" in record time, despite the fact that it was baiting 0 flames.
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PsychoSnipers
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:21 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Bah, I say DU and Teabag just flame crystalbeth on the DAC homepage.

Seriously, who gives a fuck if they blacklist us ?

Those cunts aint gone make a propper FO3 or give us excluseves anyway.
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VasikkA
No more Tuna
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Joined: 15 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:24 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

The Codex are furry poo-poo heads.

I say DAC declares war on Internet.
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DaC-Sniper
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Joined: 31 Oct 2006
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:27 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

KNIGHT RIIIIIIIDAAAAAAAAAH!

WE ARE IN WAR! WHOOOHOOOOO. aiee

I agree the Codex is just a wannabe DaC, mixed with wannabe NMA.
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PsychoSnipers
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

If a newsposter wants to REALLY declare war, theres a good opening salvo in the submit news section.......
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aries100
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Joined: 03 Feb 2007
Posts: 128
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PostPosted: Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I'm sorry your post got locked, Kharn (brother none), but as there are plenty of threads discussing the GI informer article, it is really understandable, I think.

As for the thread being flamebait, I don't think your 1st post was flamebait, but the thread was rapidly turning into a potential flamewar, imo. As for the Oblivion quotes, well, I think there are some Oblivion devs. who would wish they wouldn't have said what they have said - way back when. And your post/thread would have been just as great without these qoutes, imo.

Yes, the Radiant AI was too ambitous and too hard for the devs. to handle. Apparently, you're supposed to go to see a skooma dealer in one of the quests in Oblivion. His customers would then sometime kill his sorry ass - just to get their skooma, if they didn't have any money to buy the skooma. And then the player couldn't get acces to that person which had info the player needed for the quest.

To me, this outcome sound really great and exactly the thing I wanted to see in a game like Oblivion. Instead of fxing this, the Oblivion devs. apparently spent their time studying soil erosion and stuff like that. They could have made the skooma dealer essential until the player did get the info or they could have a pop up message saying 'XX is dead. I should go see YY for the info instead', making a backup (or two) that the player can turn to if the first informant is dead. (i think this was done in one or in all of the gothic games??)

Anyway, I happen to agree with VD om most points in hos outstanding editorial on Beth's FO 3...
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