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 On the subject of Targeting Eyes... View next topic
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King of Creation
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

[ Game -> Editorial ] - More info on Game: Fallout 3

I just wanted to post this on the main page to catch the attention of any lurking developers. There is quite a bit of talk coming from Bethesda about how they don't want to add in the option of targeting eyes in VATS. For example, from the Strategy Core interview with Emil Pagliarulo:

SC: No shots to the eyes?
EP: No, and I'll tell you why. We talked about that, we prototyped it, and when you play the game and see it in such high def, when you shoot someone in the eyes you expect the head to blow up anyway. Shooting someone in the head has the same effect. If you get a critical on them they get dazed and stuff.

I can see shooting. But what about melee weapons and unarmed combat? Surely if you go to punch someone in the eye, their head won't just up and explode, right? If you aren't strong enough to fight the person outright, it's a perfect way to incapacitate your opponent long enough so that you can either run away or perform some other devious maneuver on him. It's the same thing with targetted shots to the groin. It's a perfect way to deal a devasting blow to someone without killing them or causing them much irreperable damage. Know what I mean?

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Wolfman Walt
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 5:45 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It seems to me that they're more interested in how it looks rather then the actual effect of what it does. You gotta remember, we're dealing with things like super mutants, if you shoot one in the head with your puny 9/10mm it probably won't do alot whereas shooting him in the eyes will have a completely different effect.

Edit: Also, has it ACTUALLY been confirmed that melee is in the game from the players side? I think there was some debate to it, but the best we could come to for a conclusion was that they claimed they'd include the super sledge.
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XIT WOUND
SDF!
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Joined: 08 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 6:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the main thing that is holding Bethseda back from stuff like targeting eyeballs, groins and having unkillable children, is the possible ramification of receiving an AO rating from the ESRB. When put in FPS mode actually looking at a child in the face and then promptly shooting said child in the face would most likely cause the ESRB to have a heart attack. Having it in isometric mode takes you out of the game from having to look at faces.

What I say to Bethseda is fuck the ESRB. If I want to be a monster and kill children (not that it makes me a monster, child killing if nothing else, would be easy) why not let me? Taking the decision out of my hands means that I don't have full choice in what path I take to complete the game.

Same goes for unkillables. If I want to shoot my father in the groin *before* he leaves the vault, why not let me? Sure it would end my game and I couldn't progress anymore, but what if I wanted to do that? And isn't that what saved games are for, to load your game after you've made a mistake? Not that shooting your father in the groin would be a mistake. In fact it'd make sure that you're his one and only son...
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SuperH
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:09 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

You couldn't kill the overseer in the original, not until the end. Keep an optional evil ending and viola.

Not killing kids will be a cheesy contrivance.

I would very much like to shoot the eyes too - you get so many more criticals that way. I never used groin shots much, but the eyes were the place to aim, generally, for a maximally effective blow.
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Killzig
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 21, 2007 7:14 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

King of Creation wrote:
i can see shooting. But what about melee weapons and unarmed combat? Surely if you go to punch someone in the eye, their head won't just up and explode, right? If you aren't strong enough to fight the person outright, it's a perfect way to incapacitate your opponent long enough so that you can either run away or perform some other devious maneuver on him. It's the same thing with targetted shots to the groin. It's a perfect way to deal a devasting blow to someone without killing them or causing them much irreperable damage. Know what I mean?


KoC, you need to get some spell check up in dis bitch.

Besides, remember what Emil said. FO3 is Bethsoft's "triumphant return to gunplay" fuck a melee character. kind of funny that he says the critical for a headshot would have been the same for an eye shot in that he'd be concussed/stunned for a bit. How about blinding your opponent? There's no good reason to keep targeted strikes to the groin and eyes out but lots of neat little effects/animations you could throw in with your fancy shmancy OMG 3D engine to justify the damn thing. Unless they're scared of the ESRB, which is probably the same reason they're hesitant to hand out the modding kits. It isn't like the lack of mod tools has ever stopped the modification of a game though.
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Stainless
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 2:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Wolfman Walt wrote:
It seems to me that they're more interested in how it looks rather then the actual effect of what it does. You gotta remember, we're dealing with things like super mutants, if you shoot one in the head with your puny 9/10mm it probably won't do alot whereas shooting him in the eyes will have a completely different effect.

Edit: Also, has it ACTUALLY been confirmed that melee is in the game from the players side? I think there was some debate to it, but the best we could come to for a conclusion was that they claimed they'd include the super sledge.


I hear there's ment to be alot of melee and hth weapons or something or other, so I'm assuming it is. I'm expecting it to work exactly like oblivion though. (ie, shit).
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DarkUnderlord
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

King of Creation wrote:
I can see shooting. But what about melee weapons and unarmed combat? Surely if you go to punch someone in the eye, their head won't just up and explode, right?

Ummm... This is Bethesda we're talking about right? In their attempts to have GORY DEATH ANIMATIONS they'd go over the top with that too.

What's funny is that you could hit people in all sorts of places and "end up with the same animation" and yet no-one gave a damn.
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S4ur0n27
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 3:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

In your other news post, KoC that interview thing, Emil clearly states unarmed combat is in.
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Redeye
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 22, 2007 6:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

S4ur0n27 wrote:
In your other news post, KoC that interview thing, Emil clearly states unarmed combat is in.


But do you get double xp for unarmed/melee kills?
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Machiavelli
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Why kill kids? I understand that it was part of the original game, but lets get real here. It wasn't a major part of it. Also, if we ever want to rid ourselves of the ESRB and actually have the games to do whatever we want, we need to restrain ourselves now. I do absolutely agree that eye shots should be a valuable tactical option for non firearms characters. In the end though we just need to rejoice that the game is being made. I've waited 10 long years for this and while I hope for the best, in the end it's just a game.
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PsychoSniper2
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:21 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Machiavelli wrote:
Why kill kids? I understand that it was part of the original game, but lets get real here. It wasn't a major part of it. Also, if we ever want to rid ourselves of the ESRB and actually have the games to do whatever we want, we need to restrain ourselves now. I do absolutely agree that eye shots should be a valuable tactical option for non firearms characters. In the end though we just need to rejoice that the game is being made. I've waited 10 long years for this and while I hope for the best, in the end it's just a game.


Why NOT kill them ?

Its roleplay.

If you roleplay an evil rat bastard, and youre bored, you might want to do it for fun.

If they pickpocket you, you get annoied. Hell, I wish there was a mod to make kids combatents in FO2 when they picpocket you, they stole, so killin em is justified.
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Thor Kaufman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:30 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Machiavelli wrote:
Why kill kids? I understand that it was part of the original game, but lets get real here. It wasn't a major part of it. Also, if we ever want to rid ourselves of the ESRB and actually have the games to do whatever we want, we need to restrain ourselves now. I do absolutely agree that eye shots should be a valuable tactical option for non firearms characters. In the end though we just need to rejoice that the game is being made. I've waited 10 long years for this and while I hope for the best, in the end it's just a game.
DU should make a registration stop or at least block Bethesda IP ranges, those OGM trolls are a real pita. They're not even funny
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PsychoSniper2
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 10:33 am Reply with quoteBack to top

They should also include an option to rape the kids corpse, for the 12channers.
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Mr. Teatime
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 3:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

would be nice to be able to blind an enemy for more tactical options (and hilarity - a cool addition would for someone to surrender after they've lost their sight, but I'm guessing surrendering isn't in which sucks).
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Thor Kaufman
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

What if the blind man is a ninja or samurai? huh? huh?
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VasikkA
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 4:32 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Makes sense with certain enemies(cockroaches, rats... ), but completely removing blindness would further diminish the PnP aspect of the combat. Shooting a ghoul, super mutant or a large creature in the eye probably wouldn't kill it. Even the player character could get a severe PE penalty as well as a reduced field of vision as a result of an eye injury.

But yeah, whatever, guess they want to keep it simple and streamlined.
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S4ur0n27
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 5:23 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

It's for some suckers like somebody I won't name who won't play the game if anything could temper with the easyness; i.e. weight system a la Stalker.
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Mr. Teatime
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 6:17 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well this is certainly something to put to the devs. I believe there's a fan interview coming up (not via a fansite, but submitted questions on the official site), and have heard it said that there's quite a bit of misinformation in the previews which Bethsoft plan to clear up. Or at least, say it direct rather than through a games journalist.
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PsychoSniper2
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2007 7:25 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

VasikkA wrote:
completely removing blindness would further diminish the PnP aspect of the combat.


the PnP aspect is GONE
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Machiavelli
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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2007 1:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thor Kaufman wrote:
Machiavelli wrote:
Why kill kids? I understand that it was part of the original game, but lets get real here. It wasn't a major part of it. Also, if we ever want to rid ourselves of the ESRB and actually have the games to do whatever we want, we need to restrain ourselves now. I do absolutely agree that eye shots should be a valuable tactical option for non firearms characters. In the end though we just need to rejoice that the game is being made. I've waited 10 long years for this and while I hope for the best, in the end it's just a game.
DU should make a registration stop or at least block Bethesda IP ranges, those OGM trolls are a real pita. They're not even funny


I'm not Bethesda or OGM. I just don't happen to be a raving fanboy with such a pathetic life I have to kill and rape in a video game to make myself feel better.
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