First Real Fallout 3 News!

[King of Creation]

Also check out the mug! Look familiar?

Yes, a standard EPA approved Fallout Shelter sign.

http://www.epa.gov/radiation/students/symbols.html

Always nay-saying! Screw you and your dream-killing ways.

They got it from DAC!

[DarkUnderlord]

Which reminds me (Actually, it doesn't but anywho)...

What I would really like to see is for BethSoft to branch-out from its current M.O. -- "OMFG grafiX!", like most game companies nowadays -- and to really focus on the more subtle things with Fallout 3.

Ultimately, what about the best of both worlds? Aren't the two capable of co-existing?

You tell me how you're going to do gory death animations in full first-person 3D without breaking those next gen video chips... Keeping in mind that you're going to need some decent animators too (something Bethesda seems to lack given how much stuff you cut from Oblivion due to the lack of them). You can't cut corners like you can in isometric and miss out on detail. Instead, you're going to have resource intensive lens flare and bloom effects clogging the system at the expense of death animations and for what? So the sunrise looks pretty?

The other problem with being full first-person glorious 3D (which Fallout 3 is, isn't it?) is that you can't get away with a burst head-shot triggering the "riddled by bullets" animation. You're going to have the same complaint you had in Morrowind. "OMG I aimed for teh head! Why does shooting him in the head make his chest riddle with bullets!1!?"

Woe is you.

[hoochimama]

You're going to have the same complaint you had in Morrowind. "OMG I aimed for teh head! Why does shooting him in the head make his chest riddle with bullets!1!?"

Woe is you.

There's always the targeting box that gets smaller and smaller as your skill increases, or a simple percentage number hovering over an enemy's head denoting hit probability as you aim your gun at him. That sort of feedback would be enough for even the most annoying halo fan to understand why his shots aren't hitting the target despite his perfect aiming, of course even if they understand it they won't like it.

The most likely thing then would have to be the oblivion solution for it where you always hit where you aim, your skill just determines how much damage you do, this way the combat system won't get in the way of their FPS gaming.

Also, assuming there will be targeted shots? How optimist.

[Redeye]

Which reminds me (Actually, it doesn't but anywho)...

What I would really like to see is for BethSoft to branch-out from its current M.O. -- "OMFG grafiX!", like most game companies nowadays -- and to really focus on the more subtle things with Fallout 3.

Ultimately, what about the best of both worlds? Aren't the two capable of co-existing?

You tell me how you're going to do gory death animations in full first-person 3D without breaking those next gen video chips... Keeping in mind that you're going to need some decent animators too (something Bethesda seems to lack given how much stuff you cut from Oblivion due to the lack of them). You can't cut corners like you can in isometric and miss out on detail. Instead, you're going to have resource intensive lens flare and bloom effects clogging the system at the expense of death animations and for what? So the sunrise looks pretty?

The other problem with being full first-person glorious 3D (which Fallout 3 is, isn't it?) is that you can't get away with a burst head-shot triggering the "riddled by bullets" animation. You're going to have the same complaint you had in Morrowind. "OMG I aimed for teh head! Why does shooting him in the head make his chest riddle with bullets!1!?"

Woe is you.

There are theatrical reasons for not directly modeling things.
Like shooting someone in the eyes and half of the chest and one arm get blown off ala Fallout.
With a BB gun.

[TelemachusSneezed]

There are theatrical reasons for not directly modeling things.
Like shooting someone in the eyes and half of the chest and one arm get blown off ala Fallout.
With a BB gun.

This was pretty awesome, even if an oversight by the developers. "Rule X = man cannot be blown to pieces by a BB gun." There's something to be said against realism.

[SuperH]

Critical fucking hit man. Anyway, blowing a man apart with a BB gun was only likely to happen with the Red Ryder LE, which was a mythically over-powered super weapon anyway.

[johnnygothisgun]

There's always the targeting box that gets smaller and smaller as your skill increases, or a simple percentage number hovering over an enemy's head denoting hit probability as you aim your gun at him. That sort of feedback would be enough for even the most annoying halo fan to understand why his shots aren't hitting the target despite his perfect aiming, of course even if they understand it they won't like it.

The most likely thing then would have to be the oblivion solution for it where you always hit where you aim, your skill just determines how much damage you do, this way the combat system won't get in the way of their FPS gaming.

Also, assuming there will be targeted shots? How optimist.

The shrinking crosshair is a reasonable idea, but it still means too much of the combat is dependent on a twitchy player, which makes it a poor hybrid of player and character skill. The percentages idea isn't really good either because it would look kinda stupid, and goes back to the character/player skill thing.

Character stats determining damage? That sounds OK in a game based on melee combat, but with guns? You see the bullet hit somebody in the head, but you've got a low skill so it does low damage? Come on, that's no good.

[Frater Perdurabo]

What about how it was in Deus Ex? I quite liked that system. If they managed to create some kind of hybrid of that, it would keep me chuffed.

[atoga]

this might be an unpopular opinion, but to be honest i'm a big fan of the integrative gameplay idea where player skill is combined with character skill. it's a good way for making normally boring stuff (lockpicking for instance) something more than just a skill check. player involvement should be minimal, but it should still be a factor, ie. the player might have to choose tumblers to play around with, use their reflexes minimally, etc.

if i wanted a game where i could just say "i pick the lock", roll some dice and be done with it, i'd play a tabletop rpg. little details like that, where the player influences (but does not override) their character's abilities do add a lot to atmosphere. deus ex scratched the surface of this idea, at least combat and stealth-wise, but a lot more can be done with it.

that said, such a system is best implemented if there are 'special' things that a character with a high enough skill can do that a player might never be able to do, no matter how twitch happy they are. furthermore, the things i'm talking about shouldn't be mere buttonmashing minigames or anything like that. i hope this leaves you fellas with at least a vague idea of what i'm getting at. we know that fallout 3 isn't going to be a straight-up pencil and paper rpg translated into computer form, so you might as well up the interactivity of the game in all its aspects while still preserving an rpg framework around the workings of the core game mechanics. or something.

[johnnygothisgun]

I hear what you're saying, hombre, and believe it or not I haven't got a problem with these systems in theory. The problem is their implementation. It's really tough to make one that works well and feels natural, and apprehension over poor implementation ruining the game makes me more hopeful that they'd just go with one or the other, instead of trying both and getting it wrong.

[Frater Perdurabo]

Yes, atoga, might be an unpopular opinion, but I don't see how you could keep it in 1st person and real time (which we know will happen already) without it. It would be a much better than aiming for the guy and then shooting through/away him (like Fallout).

I'd like to see some kind of lockpicking similar to that in Thief. I thought that was amazing... Then again, can you do it on XBoX?

It will be multi platform, won't it? Fuck's sake, I wish they forgot about all of those crappy consoles and just concentrated on the PC version.

:lynch_emil:

[Koki]

this might be an unpopular opinion, but to be honest i'm a big fan of the integrative gameplay idea where player skill is combined with character skill.

Me too.

But not in cRPGs.

[atoga]

But not in cRPGs.

well then just go play a tabletop game as i so humbly suggested, jeez. this is the next generation of gaming we're talking about here, so get with the program, alright son?

[Wolfman Walt]

But not in cRPGs.

well then just go play a tabletop game as i so humbly suggested, jeez. this is the next generation of gaming we're talking about here, so get with the program, alright son?

No.

[Aneurysm]

"Divide And Conquer"

Seems to be working very well...

[PiP]

But not in cRPGs.

well then just go play a tabletop game as i so humbly suggested, jeez. this is the next generation of gaming we're talking about here, so get with the program, alright son?

when did you become such a liberal pro-action cunt?

[Koki]

But not in cRPGs.

well then just go play a tabletop game as i so humbly suggested, jeez. this is the next generation of gaming we're talking about here, so get with the program, alright son?

Ya know, if you like the next generation, like Thief 3 or Deu Ex: IW and Oblivion, you should get a console maybe.

[Frater Perdurabo]

But not in cRPGs.

well then just go play a tabletop game as i so humbly suggested, jeez. this is the next generation of gaming we're talking about here, so get with the program, alright son?

Ya know, if you like the next generation, like Thief 3 or Deu Ex: IW and Oblivion, you should get a console maybe.

That's the thing, dumbing things down is so not the next generation. I shall stick to my beloved PC.

[atoga]

But not in cRPGs.

well then just go play a tabletop game as i so humbly suggested, jeez. this is the next generation of gaming we're talking about here, so get with the program, alright son?

when did you become such a liberal pro-action cunt?

i'm just saying that if concessions are going to be made (and, after all, they will be whether we like it or not) that's the ideal model for gameplay that i have. equating that idea with deus ex: iw is just silly, if you had basic reading comprehension skills you would have noticed that i said deus ex only really scratches the surface for implementing such a system, and it's still too player-centric.

[PiP]

cool beans, I'm just saying you shouldn't show your true feelings about compromises if you want to get a good one - esp. when Fo3 devs are about