Fallout Tactics: Not that friggin bad!

[Flotsam]

Listen, you people are like Deus Ex fans who hated DX:IW. I don't care if you dislike a game, but saying someone is a moron for liking it when you didn't is just stupid.

Fallout: Tactics was actaully a decent game if you patched it, and it had many elements I hoped to see in Fallout 3. By that I mean is desructible enviorments, multi-layer levels, using cars and whatnot in game and the ability to run, go prone and crouch. The only real problem I had was the lack of conversations.

The game had a large arsenal, and realistic skill penalties when one had armor on. (You wanna try to pickpocket someone in full power armor?) Damage models were realistic, graphics were pretty alright and the new perks were usefull and served their purpose. The game makers finally made Kamikaze a usefull perk, and introduced a first in the Fallout line.. Racial choice, even if it was just a squad mate.

So friggin what if it wasn't Fallout 1 or 2? It was still an alright game, and it maintained some degree of the Fallout feel.. Unlike the horror of F:POS

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

When did anyone get called a moron for liking tactics? Recently that is, you're a few years too late with your rant.

And racial choice was first introduced in FO2, what with Lenny, Goris, Marcus and Skynet etc as available party members.

Actually FOT has less of a destructable environment than the rpgs, running was already available in Fallout (don't tell me you walked through the whole of Fallout?)

As for maintaining some degree of the Fallout feel, haha no! You mention it yourself cars, totally bollocks the Fallout setting, not to mention the rape of the Brotherhood concept. I don't mind the lack of a speech tree, after all it's meant to be a tactical combat game not an rpg, it's just a pity it's so lacking in the simplest of tactical options.

[PiP]

Listen, you people are like Deus Ex fans who hated DX:IW.

I believe they had some good reason for that, like the fact that the game was dumbed down

I don't care if you dislike a game, but saying someone is a moron for liking it when you didn't is just stupid.

No, sometimes it's not. Think for example of a game that consists in picking up flowers on a meadow with your protagonist barbie doll. (or maybe you'd like that? )

Fallout: Tactics was actaully a decent game if you patched it, and it had many elements I hoped to see in Fallout 3. By that I mean is desructible enviorments, multi-layer levels,

true that

using cars and whatnot in game and the ability to run,

bollocks

The only real problem I had was the lack of conversations.

See, however justified in a tactical game, it's the lack of RPG elements that got Fallout fans critical of FOT. Fallouts are RPGs.

So friggin what if it wasn't Fallout 1 or 2? It was still an alright game, and it maintained some degree of the Fallout feel..

alright game - possibly; it's all about the meaning of the word some in 'some degree of the Fallout feel'

Actually FOT has less of a destructable environment than the rpgs

Fallout and F2 you mean? Didn't really notice the difference as I didn't play FOT much.

running was already available in Fallout (don't tell me you walked through the whole of Fallout?)

the rape of the Brotherhood concept.

my thought exactly

I don't mind the lack of a speech tree,

I do!

after all it's meant to be a tactical combat game not an rpg

oh well.. in that case..

it's just a pity it's so lacking in the simplest of tactical options.

could you elaborate on this? I'm not an expert and it's kinda interesting.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

it's just a pity it's so lacking in the simplest of tactical options.

could you elaborate on this? I'm not an expert and it's kinda interesting.

Okay, since JA2 is TB and almost the same perspective and considered one of the best examples of the genre let's compare.

Destroyable scenery. Say there's a door you need to go through, only the enemy has set up in the room behind and will slaughter anyone coming through the door. In both games you have a chance to fire first, JA2 uses interupts based on the level and abilities of the characters, in FOT you've got sequence based on perception. In FOT though all you can do is open the door and hope that the squad member you used can fire first, or take the damage inflicted without getting killed, then move out of the doorway quickly. In JA2 in most areas you can use explosives to create your own door and hit the enemy from two sides.

Or even just being able to cut a hole in a fence with a pair of wire cutters, so you could make an alternate entrance, okay FOT lacks chainlink fences but still being able to climb obstacles with needing a ladder would of been handy.

Supressing fire, okay you've got overwatch in the TB modes but it's not really the same.

Silent kills, take the second mission in FOT, you have to rescue the elder. If you're spotted in the main area of the camp some of the guards will run for a couple of alarms. If the alarms go off the raider leader will wake the camp and now you have to deal with all the sleeping raiders as well. Sounds good but if you're spotted outside the camp no one tries to raise an alarm, and no one from in the camp reacts to the pitched battle outside or even to the sound of gunfire in the camp, if you manage to kill the guards before they can trigger the alarms. In JA2 they have silencers, if in the same situation you didn't use a silenced weapon or other method of killing (throwing knife to the head) you'd alert the whole camp.

Just a couple of observations.

[[HpA]SniperPotato]

I like FOT.

[PiP]

thanks requiem. so I guess Silent Storm really pwns as regards tactical game. I really liked it, but the other day when I reinstalled my system it turned out I've got this single fucking scratch on CD1 and the game won't install.. and I didn't even get halfway through the game.. oh fuck.

[Flotsam]

You know, I can't recall having the option to kneel and go prone in Fallout 1 + 2. As for racial choice, I meant being able to control a deathclaw not by setting an AI to attack or run.

And I'm unsure of where this 'complete raping' occured, since it does infact make sense that the Brotherhood would need some outside help. They came from the Mariposa Base, and I doubt that they were self suffecient there, and the Lost Hills bunker did regular trading with the carvans. If you wound up as far from any other Brotherhood soldiers as the ones in FT, would you try to survive with a few hundred people? It might be enough for a while, but if they take 3-4 casaultlies per attack on raiders, mutants or Reavers, then they are gonna be screwed pretty quick.

They did the logical thing and started to trade with the locals and offering something they couldn't refuse. They got food and able bodied recruits, and in tern the Brotherhood kept their food and body sources safe. And yet you think that this is a raping of their concept?

[Retlaw83]

I think the Midwest Brotherhood's "raping" of the original Brotherhood concept can be justified, given the situation they put themselves in.

However, un-canon things like transistor technology, hairy deathclaws and an abandoning of the Fallout arsenal set me on edge.

[requiem_for_a_starfury]

You know, I can't recall having the option to kneel and go prone in Fallout 1 + 2.

Fallout: Tactics was actaully a decent game if you patched it, and it had many elements I hoped to see in Fallout 3. By that I mean is desructible enviorments, multi-layer levels, using cars and whatnot in game and the ability to run, go prone and crouch. The only real problem I had was the lack of conversations.

From your original post, anyone reading that who hadn't played the RPGs would think that FOT was the first game in the Fallout Franchise to introduce running, I don't see anyone mentioning crouch and prone in the RPGs, in their reply to you.

As for racial choice, I meant being able to control a deathclaw not by setting an AI to attack or run.

Technically Fallout was the first to allow nonhuman comapanions, although Tactics was the first to allow you full control of your party, but I hope they don't include that in FO3. It detracts from the pnp feel of the games for a start.

And I'm unsure of where this 'complete raping' occured, since it does infact make sense that the Brotherhood would need some outside help. They came from the Mariposa Base, and I doubt that they were self suffecient there, and the Lost Hills bunker did regular trading with the carvans. If you wound up as far from any other Brotherhood soldiers as the ones in FT, would you try to survive with a few hundred people? It might be enough for a while, but if they take 3-4 casaultlies per attack on raiders, mutants or Reavers, then they are gonna be screwed pretty quick.

They did the logical thing and started to trade with the locals and offering something they couldn't refuse. They got food and able bodied recruits, and in tern the Brotherhood kept their food and body sources safe. And yet you think that this is a raping of their concept?

Err from the whole story line, the opening naration that turns them into military vault dwellers, this rewriting into a gung ho military group bent on dominating the wasteland and brining it under Brotherhood law & order. In Fallout they were a small group of isolationists intent on gathering and preserving technology from the old world. They weren't interested in the outside world, the majority of them had probably never left the bunker. They made up suicidal quests to detert people from trying to join and even in the face of a threat to human existance it took a great deal of persuasion to get them to help.

[Scorpion]

Fallout Tactics rocks.

It's the only fallout game I've bought, last one at the store, the origonal huge box and 3 cd's and crap.

It's pretty fun to get away from the whole turn based fighting, but I had more fun with Fallout than Fallout Tactics.

[Flotsam]

I left TBC on, though in some cases (like the auto-fire modes and far away targets) I just said to hell with it and switched to RTC. That and RTC made running away much easier.

[aeonsbeyond]

FO1 & 2 rocked but theyre nearly unplayable by even the standards for FOT, let alone more recent standards...

Anyone who posts here should have FOT installed, its the best game mechanics of the series.

[Redeye]

FO1 & 2 rocked but theyre nearly unplayable by even the standards for FOT, let alone more recent standards...

Anyone who posts here should have FOT installed, its the best game mechanics of the series.

I don't mind fo1/2.

even now

I'd love to see Wasteland done as an FOT conversion.

mmmmmm....... beer

[Jesus Christ]

Everybody ignore aeonsbeyond. He's a demon child.

[vx trauma]

saturday night is alright for expulsion. dj exorcist, play that funny song with ze snorks. that cocain mambo. JAJA!!

[Subhuman]

FOT was a good idea badly executed. At first I thought, "Cool, an RTS in the Fallout universe. This could be good." But it wasn't. Not the worst game ever by any means, and a little unfairly pissed-on by the fanatics, but still kinda lame.

[VasikkA]

Although the combat in Fallout is more streamlined than in FOT, I ended up using the simpler real-time mode in FOT 90% of the time simply because it was faster that way. All missions had the same structure; systematic cleansing of the map of enemies. I became bored and realized a tactical combat game needs at least something else than just tactical combat. Becuase my squadmates shot automatically, I often felt that I only controlled their legs and not their mind. The suspense and immersion was nowhere near that of X-Com, JA, Silent Storm or even the original Fallouts.

FO1 & 2 rocked but theyre nearly unplayable by even the standards for FOT, let alone more recent standards...

Which 'standards' in particular are you talking about? Be more specific.

[aeonsbeyond]

Everybody ignore aeonsbeyond. He's a demon child.

You would know, Dad.

[aeonsbeyond]

Although the combat in Fallout is more streamlined than in FOT, I ended up using the simpler real-time mode in FOT 90% of the time simply because it was faster that way. All missions had the same structure; systematic cleansing of the map of enemies. I became bored and realized a tactical combat game needs at least something else than just tactical combat. Becuase my squadmates shot automatically, I often felt that I only controlled their legs and not their mind. The suspense and immersion was nowhere near that of X-Com, JA, Silent Storm or even the original Fallouts.

FO1 & 2 rocked but theyre nearly unplayable by even the standards for FOT, let alone more recent standards...

Which 'standards' in particular are you talking about? Be more specific.

Im sorry, recent engine/graphics standards...

[Jesus Christ]

Kid these days...


always about the graphics.