"Duo-Toning" Wall Tiles

[OnTheBounce]

Here's a link to a composite screenshot that I'd like you all to take a look at. I call the technique "Duo-Toning" and it's something that I came up with while I was doing the preliminary work on the Scars of a Million map that BBM wanted me to do.

For your viewing pleasure.

Please let me know what you think about the look of this sort of thing.

OTB

[Viktor]

Here's a link to a composite screenshot that I'd like you all to take a look at. I call the technique "Duo-Toning" and it's something that I came up with while I was doing the preliminary work on the Scars of a Million map that BBM wanted me to do.

For your viewing pleasure.

Please let me know what you think about the look of this sort of thing.

OTB

I like it!! Not only does it look great, but it gives all Map Rats a chance to make building that don't trigger a "That's building X from Mission XX" response from FO:T fans that know the core missions inside and out.

[Talion]

That screenshot looks really good, OTB. Are you incorporating that map into your campaign now that SOAM bit the dust? Can't wait to see the rest of that building.

I'm glad I'm not the only one mixing and matching floor tiles. My BOS bunker used industrial tiles, bos tiles, and robot tiles. I think it looks great but I was worried others might think its too cluttered. You can see what I mean here:
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Capsule ... llout.html
Take a look at the bunker shots.

I've also tried your technique in some maps. For example, I've used subway wall tiles inside a cinder block building to give the impression of a public restroom. I think it works well in most instances. However, I've come across some that just didnt look right. The top of the walls tends to bother me. Especially mixing a one unit thick wall with a two unit thick wall. What youve done there looks good though.

- Talion

[Max-Violence]

OTB: That looks pretty good! Are you using that in all of your maps "from now on"?

Talion: WOW! Those are some awsome-looking maps you've got yerself! I can't wait to see them completed ("completed" meaning in an actual game that everyone can play, etc. :mrgreen:)

[War Bringer]

looks cool. one thing that kept getting at me though when i was doing this was the connection sometimes with walls that were 1 unit thick and the other 2 units thick. actually, it wasn't that big of a problem, but it was just annoying when you're trying to stay consistant with some things...

[OnTheBounce]

like it!! Not only does it look great, but it gives all Map Rats a chance to make building that don't trigger a "That's building X from Mission XX" response from FO:T fans that know the core missions inside and out.

Great, I'm glad you like it. BTW, I'm not sure any of the Map Rats know the core campaign maps "inside and out". I'm getting the impression that most of us don't pay too much attention to the core campaign anymore.

That screenshot looks really good, OTB. Are you incorporating that map into your campaign now that SOAM bit the dust?

That map wasn't for SoaM. I was doing the preliminary work for the SoaM map when I came up with the idea of "duo-toning" because BBM wanted a small, free-standing high-tech facility. Since the artists at MF didn't do a set of worn/ruined looking Vault Tiles, I thought that using the Subway walls to represent the outside of the building would be a good idea so that you don't have nice, shiney, new Vault-Tek steel that's been exposed to the elements for the better part of two centuries. But yes, that map is part of my campaign.

Can't wait to see the rest of that building.

You may very well take that back once you get there. :twisted:

I'm glad I'm not the only one mixing and matching floor tiles. My BOS bunker used industrial tiles, bos tiles, and robot tiles. I think it looks great but I was worried others might think its too cluttered...

I'm glad this came up, since that forum screw up left me unable to post some feedback on your maps:

I very much like the look of your maps, Talion. They are well-crafted and show both creativity as well as a decent grasp of how the tiles should fit together. Keep up the good work!

I've also tried your technique in some maps. For example, I've used subway wall tiles inside a cinder block building to give the impression of a public restroom. I think it works well in most instances. However, I've come across some that just didnt look right. The top of the walls tends to bother me. Especially mixing a one unit thick wall with a two unit thick wall. What youve done there looks good though.

Yes, I did the same thing! The Subway wall tiles w/the tiles on them. Right? I have a map that I used that look extensively on. I think I'll post some screenshots from that map in my next site update.

That looks pretty good! Are you using that in all of your maps "from now on"?

I guess you could say that I'm "using it where it's appropriate". I've actually been using this technique for a while, but this current map is one that is just rife w/that sort of thing. The walls on the first level look like what you saw. The lower levels of the complex use the Subway walls for the exterior side; BoS walls for maintenance and security areas, and stairwells; and the Vault walls for the "nicer" areas.

I think the most important thing to a map like this is having it look like what it was designed for more so than simply placing the appropriate gadgets in areas. I'm really not trying to be pedantic about tiles, but I'm still a firm believer in sharing our techniques so that all of our work can benefit. (First one to suggest a group hug will be shot in the face in a most unceremonious way. )

looks cool. one thing that kept getting at me though when i was doing this was the connection sometimes with walls that were 1 unit thick and the other 2 units thick. actually, it wasn't that big of a problem, but it was just annoying when you're trying to stay consistant with some things...

I'm glad some of you have already been doing this. From what I've seen of your maps they also look good.

Have you considered putting two layers of the one unit thick walls together to effectively make a two unit thick wall? I haven't tried that, but you might give it a shot. (It might do bad things to the Occlussion Data...) I've shied away from using the various thicknesses of walls together since it bothered me that my walls were uniformly thick, too.

Thank you very much for the input so far, gentlemen.

OTB

[Red]

I've tested putting 2 walls thick and it's not a problem... Occlusion problems mostly happen when changing elevations without having tiles around to trigger them "off" (or with tiles around which triggers them off I really wish I had my stupid "v13 grotto" map as it spurred just about every occlusion problem there is ... And now that I know a bit more then when I did it I'd like to see how I would of worked around them.

[Flamescreen]

Impressive building. Nice thought-implementation OTB! I was thinking of doing similat stuff in my campaign since it would deffinately look distinctive compared to the more or less familiar core campaign building styles-types.

Also hope the tile editor will give us the opportunity to create more of these effective tile combos.

[Red]

Also hope the tile editor will give us the opportunity to create more of these effective tile combos.

Guys... I need you to BUG ME!

Seriously. Just email me, as much as you want (with at least some creative thoughts behind it), because I still didn't touch it. Harass me, email me, ICQ me, PM me on all the boards I hang out on, leaves messages in approprite threads, log on the various IRC servers I hang out on and message me (FYI, gamesnet #fallout, efnet #doom3/#quake and I'm affraid the last one stays secret). I need to get focused again.

My work was basically put on pause when the WW2 mod team stopped bugging me. I gave them regular updates with fresh compiles and new features, but they barely tried it out or commented it (and even less find bugs in it), so as time went on my priority for the project decreased onto a stall.

[Jimmyjay86]

Red, dammit we need those tile editors.... Raus mit der editor!

There are so many tiles that can be made - we can import everything from Fallout1 & 2. I was looking at the graphics from Fallout and if I had the editor I could piece that whole cathedral together. We'll give you a deadline of the end of June, then we'll come looking for you.....

[Max-Violence]

We'll give you a deadline of the end of June, then we'll come looking for you.....

... some of us with a Pancor...

[OnTheBounce]

... some of us with a Pancor...

Others with a .22 caliber Ruger Mark II Target Pistol... :mrgreen:

OTB

[Red]

Um, the angles for Fallout1/2 and FO:T are totally different. You can't just convert it as easyly as that - and perhaps you could import the whole catherdral, but then you couldn't walk in it!

So the tile editor won't be really useful in that regard (it would be very possible to port all the FO1/2 weapon graphics without too much trouble however), unless omeone finds a clever way to "adapt" the tiles into the new perspectve.

[Jimmyjay86]

Don't they both use the same 27° isometric perspective? Even if they used different isometric perspectives, it would be easy to make a little batch macro in photoshop to convert the perspective. It appears from looking at the tiles from Fallout that the cathedral that the entire building is composed of tiles in the same way that FOT graphics are used. It would just be a matter of piecing the separate tiles together jigsaw-puzzle style to build the cathedral back together again. We have the know-how, all we need is the technology and that's where you come in!

I have already created a photoshop procedure to translate a flat rectangle into the proper isometric perspective and have used it create several sprites. The best examples of these are the radio sprites for Max-V's latest mission for Rebellion. I used the photo of the flat face of a radio and skewed it to the correct perspective, then manually drew in a side and top with shading. It was relatively easy.

I could take digital photos of two faces of an actual building, chop it up into tiles and convert them all automatically with a batch macro into the proper perspective. Think of the possibilities of that, having any real building brought into the Fallout universe!

[ThS204]

No offense, but I've already done that, I seems perfectly logical, you know? Most walls in the real world arent the same on the inside as they are on the outside. It never bothered me in the core campaigns, but I get all nit-picky(whatever) when making maps so I decided it didn't look right using the same tiles like that.

I not trying to be arrogant or anything.

[Red]

Well, if you figure some magic photoshop skew that fixes it, that'd be great... You can already test if all that's possibly by extracting a few FRMs with GRV (found on freelancer) and see if you can "match it up" with FO:T'S...

I you were to prove to me it's as simple as that, it might entice me to finish the tile editor faster and probably add FRM support (the format is already coded in my viewer but I need to add proper palette support) part)...

[Forty-six & Two]

"Duo-toning" pretty much came naturally to me, I dont think ive ever made a building with the same tileset actually, im just to much into the little details Which also consumes ALOT of extra time, testing, replacing, testing, replacing and testing again Etc.

[Jimmyjay86]

Red stated:

Well, if you figure some magic photoshop skew that fixes it, that'd be great... You can already test if all that's possibly by extracting a few FRMs with GRV (found on freelancer) and see if you can "match it up" with FO:T'S...

Yeah there is a definite difference between the perspectives. It may be easier and better to try to make a new picture based on the original tiles than try to rotate/skew them.

[Red]

Yeah, one of my ideas was to take 4 tiles and make a kind of cut-out of it... However it wouldn't tile properly then...

The only other idea I can think of is try to render it in 3d and change the perspective for real and rotate it, using all possible features (anitromorphic filtering and 4xFSAA), but that would defenetivly change the end result in any case...