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 Pancor Jackhammer, Can't target? View next topic
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Jeremiah
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 3:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Umm, is there a reason why one cannot make targetted shots with the Pancor. The Neostead and CAWS can be targetted except this one.

Is it because the game designers felt it was powerful enough as it is? I was a bit surprised at that and made sure the character wielding it doesn't have fast shot.
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MurPHy
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 6:51 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

First off, I never heard of such things as an untargetable Pancor.

Second, its a shotgun! No aiming required. Simply point it at your target and your boom stick will do the rest.
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Jeremiah
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 23, 2002 7:04 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Well of course I know it is a shotgun. It is just that I prefer to target the robot sensors to increase chances of a critical against them. The CAWS and Neostead have the option to target with. Why not the Pancor? Nice burst damage though.
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ArchVile
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 8:48 am Reply with quoteBack to top

shotty shells suck against robots, unless your talking about EMP shells, then you don't need to bother with aiming.
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Nutter
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 2:44 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

that's right, save your targetted shots for your sniper rifle

your shotgun should be on permanent burst
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OnTheBounce
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 24, 2002 9:19 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Nutter wrote:
your shotgun should be on permanent burst


I disagree. Give Jax a Pancor and EMP shells and when you send him out to root out Scurry Bots bursts are really a waste since it usually only take him two shots to kill any and all of them caught in that oh so vicious cone. EMP shells are far too precious to go spraying down the countryside with. icon_wink

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Jeremiah
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 3:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I use the purple slug ones (bonus to penetration) against robots mostly. Haven't had the need to use the EMP yet. Still have all 240 shells collected.

BTW, anybody else notice the Thompson SMG bug? I equipped it on a character with fast shot and bonus rate of fire, it cost 3 AP to burst. But guess how many APs to fire single shot. 4 APS!! That is wierd. BTW, the game is patched to 1.27 and no mods have been applied.

I only noticed the Thompson since after finishing mission 16, I found myself with a thousands of rounds of 9mm, 0.45 ACP and 5.56 mm. I noticed that the Avenger miniguns does absolutely squat against even the scurry bots (only the M2 Brownings work). So I decided to load up the squad on the hummer and do raider, beast lords and deathclaw hunting just to use up those rounds and push Clarisse to level 23.

So can anybody tell me if these 2 features, non-targettable Pancor and the higher AP single shot Thompson is normal or are they bugs that have never been addressed? Should these be reported to Microforte?
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 5:17 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Jeremiah wrote:
I use the purple slug ones (bonus to penetration) against robots mostly. Haven't had the need to use the EMP yet. Still have all 240 shells collected.


The AP slugs also have a -25% Damage modifier, though. So although they lower a target's DT/DR by 50% they are still less than spectacular against 'Bots. EMP shells, on the other hand, do standard damage, however 'Bots (excepting the Pacification Bot) have less than no resistance vs. EMP, so they are readily killed by these shells.

Jeremiah wrote:
BTW, anybody else notice the Thompson SMG bug? I equipped it on a character with fast shot and bonus rate of fire, it cost 3 AP to burst. But guess how many APs to fire single shot. 4 APS!! That is wierd. BTW, the game is patched to 1.27 and no mods have been applied.


Yes, I noticed that on my first game, and it's pretty much why I've almost never used the Thompson. (Your character must have both Fast Shot and Bonus Rate of Fire, BTW.) I used it in my first game to try and dump all of the .45 ACP that I had, but by the time you actually get it, it is outdated as all hell, not to mention that its rather wide damage range (9-39 Single, 8-32 Burst) make it rather unpredictable. You can complete shatter a mutie with one burst only to have the next one barely tickle an identical opponent. For all of these reasons it's on my "Dump this in the QM's lap as soon as possible" list.

Jeremiah wrote:
So can anybody tell me if these 2 features, non-targettable Pancor and the higher AP single shot Thompson is normal or are they bugs that have never been addressed? Should these be reported to Microforte?


They're definitely not bugs, because there's nothing wrong w/the entity files. I'd say that in the case of the shotguns it's a design flaw, probably due to the fact that the devs didn't think the conversion from the RPGs to FoT through, or possibly because different people were in charge of making different entities. According to the items section at No Mutants Allowed all of these weapons have a single, targeted shot, and burst setting in FO2, so there's an inconsistency -- surprise, surprise! -- w/the shotguns in FoT if nothing else. However, I'm going to say that the ability to make targeted shots w/these weapons doesn't fit the other game effects that they were given. They have the effect of attacking everything in a rather wide cone (roughly 70-80 degrees) in front of the shooter. Click here to see a screenshot of just how devastating even a single shot from a Pancor can be. In the RPGs they were simply weapons which did more damage than most single projectile weapons at the cost of some range, with standard rules governing their other effects.

If you're curious, I say eMail the chaps at MF, but don't expect a patch, even if you do get a response telling you that this is indeed an error on their part. If you'd like, I can walk you through fixing these errors using the Entity Editor that comes w/the v1.27 patch.

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Jeremiah
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 7:26 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the reply OTB. I was just wondering about it and wanted to be sure it wasn't just my game. I rarely use the targetted shots feature of the shotguns anyway.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Jeremiah wrote:
Thanks for the reply OTB.


No problem. smile

Jeremiah wrote:
I was just wondering about it and wanted to be sure it wasn't just my game.


Nah, that''s the way they are. Oh, one thing I forgot to mention about the Thompson in my earlier post: the higher AP cost for Single over Burst mode may very well be someone's idea of game balance. Compared to the other SMGs the Thompson hits pretty hard -- if inconsistantly! -- and so the designers may have set the AP costs up so that it become a liability in close quarters fighting when you suddenly find yourself spraying down your squadmates.

Jeremiah wrote:
I rarely use the targetted shots feature of the shotguns anyway.


I can see why. Especially on the Neostead (which, incidentally is a pump shotgun and not a full-auto, check the link if you don't believe me icon_wink ) which has such a short range that whatever advantage is gained by a targeted shot evaporates in the face of getting overrun by a charging Deathclaw Pup...

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Nutter
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:36 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

once i got the EMP shells i stopped setting the shotgun to burst fire (only my close quarter combat guy uses the shotgun (pancor) by the way, so he gets to hoard all the shells, heh heh) because the damage they were doing on single fire was sufficient anyway

on the other hand, the thompson i have never set on single fire at all, so i'm not aware of that AP bug, but i've found it to be actually quite a decent gun (but it probably does so much damage because it eats up ammo like popcorn)
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Max-Violence
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 12:52 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

A Pancor in burst mode w/ EMP shells is just the ticket when up against a Behemoth or two... Pulse grenades also do wonders.
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PostPosted: Wed Sep 25, 2002 9:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Max-Violence wrote:
A Pancor in burst mode w/ EMP shells is just the ticket when up against a Behemoth or two...


Indeed, but it's a waste on the lesser 'Bots. Jax + Pancor on Single + EMP shells = swath of destroyed robots.

Max-Violence wrote:
Pulse grenades also do wonders.


Especially if you have Toni the SM (who has the Kamikaze Trait!) and the Psychotic perk. Dope her up w/a dose of Psycho and she shrugs off Behemoth rounds like a light spring rain and two or three Pulse Grenades later you've got yourself a destroyed Behemoth, suitable for posing your squad in front of a taking a screenshot. (Er...not that I've ever done that before...)

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Jeremiah
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 4:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I reserved the EMP shells for the behemoths. Had Rage do burst fire for over 200 plus damage per successful attack.

First off though have my heavy weapons guy use explosive rockets (if possible doped up with psycho or voodoo in advanced power armor) get their attention.

Those minigun robots are pretty funny. They rarely do damage before the M2 Browning guy blows them to chunks.

If anything is annoying, it would be the Security bots with the lasers. The least hassle I had of dealing with them was have a tesla armored person smack them with a pulse rifle or EMP shell equipped shotgun.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 27, 2002 7:52 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Jeremiah wrote:
If anything is annoying, it would be the Security bots with the lasers. The least hassle I had of dealing with them was have a tesla armored person smack them with a pulse rifle or EMP shell equipped shotgun.


Damned skippy! Those lasers go through PA like a hot knife through butter, so I always keep one of my Snipers in Tesla Armor to deal w/those pesky bastards. You just have to have that person watch out for Vindicator Miniguns... 8O

(Yes, I know you can change back and forth between armor types, but that's gamesmanship to an extent that leaves a bad taste in my mouth.)

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vVolf
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 07, 2002 5:28 am Reply with quoteBack to top

OnTheBounce wrote:

Damned skippy!


Skippy? Laughing REALLY FUCKING HARD
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