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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: Cackalackyland

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Because Apocalypse was a clusterfuck of different design ideas and gameplay features that didn't need to be there.

Like real-time combat.

I've never liked Apocalypse.

And the thing about XCOM Enemy Unknown is that they made it as a board game first and turned it into a video game.

Next time you play it, imagine if it were a board game, and the gameplay makes a lot more sense decision wise in their development. As a boardgame I think it's great, but as a turn-based tactical game like the original X-COM games or Silent Storm or Jagged Alliance I find it really wanting.

It did some things right but it also did some things wrong. Not having a SDK to mod the game only exacerbates my feelings towards it because it's so close to being a better game it hurts, like Far Cry 2 which was "Wasted Potential: The Game."

It's like X-COM uncanny valley, really close but just not quite there and something feels off about it.

It's worth one playthrough but not much else, it doesn't have the real randomly generated environments of the originals or the real non-linear events and terror missions. The scale of the fights and maps and everything in the new game just seems... small, for a lack of a better word.
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Retlaw83
Goatse Messiah
Goatse Messiah


Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 5328

PostPosted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 9:13 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Real-time combat was optional in Apocalypse, so I don't see the point in complaining about that specific feature. I thought the strategic layer was pretty good because of the city.

As far as the scale of the battles, I remember in Apocalypse near the end of the game going on tactical missions with 36 agents that could last upwards of two hours. In Enemy Unknown, if you dash forward on the first turn you'll probably stumble into a hornet's nest.
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Wolfman Walt
Mamma's Gang member
Mamma's Gang member


Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Posts: 5171
Location: La Grange, Kentucky

PostPosted: Wed Jul 17, 2013 4:13 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Retlaw83 wrote:
Real-time combat was optional in Apocalypse, so I don't see the point in complaining about that specific feature.


Wasn't this the argument in Fallout Tactics? I dunno if I buy it.
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Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:24 am Reply with quoteBack to top

So was Shadowrun so disappointing you lot all decided to jump off an overpass and into heavy traffic? Pics plz. icon_drunk

Also, saw Hipster Drama: The game: The movie. Don't make the same mistake.
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Mismatch
Hero of the Glowing Lands
Hero of the Glowing Lands


Joined: 20 Jan 2004
Posts: 2160
Location: Over yonder hill

PostPosted: Wed Aug 07, 2013 10:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I finally installed my kickstarer shadowrun copy and played it for a few hours last night.

Combat is decent.
Very linear.
Written dialogue is aye ok.
I'd say: 2/5

I'm glad I was in on the kickstarter, since that made me pay what the game is worth.... At full retail I'd be furious.
Not sure what full retail is though.
The game is not worth more than $20.
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Blargh
Überkommando
Überkommando


Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 6324

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 3:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

It's pretty disappointing, certainly.

Near absence of choice or consequence. Dialogue options are mostly cosmetic, etiquette opportunities are very rare and of marginal usefulness. Maps are extremely linear.

Tedious cycle of move across map (possibly talking at some throwaway NPCs of, you guessed it, no real consequence), engage mooks in combat, kill all the mooks, slowly find the map exit because you're still in combat despite all the enemies being dead. AND REPEAT.

Saves are on-map-entry checkpoints only. Because save anywhere was 'too complicated' . . .

Cyberware is a pretty boring selection of +stats, and the one exception of wired reflexes which offers a gameplay changer didn't work properly, as in addition to automatically dodging the first attack in a round, it could cause the character to 'miss' reloading their weapon, or receiving beneficial magical effects - such as healing.

Minimal non-combat content. No negotiation with Mr. Johnsons/fixers, no reconnaissance, no social engineering, no stealth.

Like cyberware, equipment, and particularly weapons, are a series of incremental upgrades. Ooh, +1 damage !

Jarring escalation of noir-ish seek-justice-for-dead-friend-get-paid into trite only-you-can-save-the-worldcity-from-astral-insects-and-not-get-paid.

Matrix is essentially a neon reskin of meatspace combat. Poorly implemented and underwhelming. Also, the NPC deckers are without exception awful at their purported role.

Other stuff I can't recall at this time.

I suppose it makes some sense if you examine it as 1.8 million on a toolset, which a brief proof-of-capability module tacked on at the end. But running off the kickstarter details, it still feels like expecting a cyberpunk Jagged Alliance 2 or Baldur's Gate, and receiving Jagged Alliance - Back in Action/half of Icewind Dale, with a seemingly less comprehensive version of the Neverwinter Nights toolset.

Oh well. icon_drunk
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Wolfman Walt
Mamma's Gang member
Mamma's Gang member


Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Posts: 5171
Location: La Grange, Kentucky

PostPosted: Thu Aug 08, 2013 10:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

I thought it was ok? I'm having fun playing it. Sure, it's not GREAT, but lets face it, it's better than what we have been getting? I say give it some time, as with the tools, people could churn out some pretty good stuff. I know, for instance, that with the tools, you can turn on corpse looting. I mean, for like the $15 I spent to get it, I feel pretty satisfied. Infact, the only part that really annoys me is the wonky save system.
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Hatmanius
SDF!
SDF!


Joined: 09 Aug 2013
Posts: 1
Location: Seattle

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 6:05 am Reply with quoteBack to top

On a totally different subject from the previous conversation I am playing through Fallout 3 finally after years of reading through the lore and everything. Just got to the main mission quest to go to the Lincoln Memorial. It caused me to want to find some site where I could find people who have the same interest. So hi everybody!
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Retlaw83
Goatse Messiah
Goatse Messiah


Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 5328

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 4:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Fallout 3 isn't really liked around these parts because it's not really a Fallout game.
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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: Cackalackyland

PostPosted: Fri Aug 09, 2013 5:11 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Word, Ret.

So Misery 2.0 for Call of Pripyat is not fun. This is coming from a guy that plays Zone of Alienation for Shadow of Chernobyl.
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Blargh
Überkommando
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Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 6324

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 5:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

SenisterDenister wrote:
Misery 2.0


It's a bit better (though certainly not perfect³) with the unofficial 'unfuck Misery 2.0 patch'. Some examples :

Being confident of the fact that when you shoot someone in the balaclava they will fall down.

Artifacts not weighing 15+ kilos.

Tuna and friends not sporting exosuits.

Removal of Clear Sky (HA !) inspired grenade clairvoyance. icon_drunk

³It may have, in fact, recanted the above alterations in a later version. BUGFUCK.
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Subhuman
Haha you're still not there yet
Haha you're still not there yet


Joined: 21 May 2002
Posts: 3448
Location: Denial

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:06 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Having recently upgraded my computer after almost 10 years (no, really), I downloaded Steam and have been catching up on some of the major titles I've missed. I've been playing Portal and Portal 2 like a fiend lately. Portal 2 is great, but I'm actually more in it for the story than the gameplay, awesome as the gameplay is. I may be alone in this.
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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: Cackalackyland

PostPosted: Sat Aug 10, 2013 6:25 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Blargh wrote:
SenisterDenister wrote:
Misery 2.0


It's a bit better (though certainly not perfect³) with the unofficial 'unfuck Misery 2.0 patch'. Some examples :

Being confident of the fact that when you shoot someone in the balaclava they will fall down.

Artifacts not weighing 15+ kilos.

Tuna and friends not sporting exosuits.

Removal of Clear Sky (HA !) inspired grenade clairvoyance. icon_drunk

³It may have, in fact, recanted the above alterations in a later version. BUGFUCK.

Yeah, some guys I know told me to download it, I may end up downloading Absolute Nature and those other packs to replace all the brown and gloom to not only stop stuttering but make the Zone look like how it is in real-life.
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Blargh
Überkommando
Überkommando


Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 6324

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 5:15 am Reply with quoteBack to top

While I concede that I've never been overly enamoured with the RTS genre, the gameplay of Divinity - Dragon Commander seems rather shallow.

Hope Original Sin treads a different path. icon_drunk
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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: Cackalackyland

PostPosted: Sun Aug 11, 2013 7:56 am Reply with quoteBack to top

As far as strategy games go right now I've got my eye set on Europa Universalis IV.

Gonna be good. I'm trying to make Brittania in my latest CK2 playthrough so I can port that world over into EUIV.
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Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Mon Aug 12, 2013 5:53 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Just fingerprint-ed Anita Sarkeesian at the checkpoint for not donnin' a 'fro like it said in the paper. The prints didn't match. She was all uppity and I went from "Papers, Please" to "Feminazi, Please!" faster than you can say "Oh no she di'n't!". Then I hit the big red button marked DETAIN. And for a second, life was alright in East Greslin. I bet those border guards are really looking forward to hear about the patriarchy.

McDenied- I'm lovin' it! icon_drunk
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Tofu Man
Paparazzi
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Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 1:44 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Accounts describe it as not random enough to be replayed. It doesn't really matter. The single playthrough of Papers, Please is still the best thing that's happened in gaming all year, Gunpoint in not-so-near pursuit.

Perhaps one could argue that the repetitiousness brought on by further playthroughs is what'd put you in the mindset of the character you're playing as, making your choices and attitudes during your final playthrough ideal. That I'm not a civil servant; That the ability of having make-or-break decisions over people's lives and justifying your choices with meaningless shit like "protocol" or self-serving attitudes like "I need the money" or the selfless idea of it being "basic human kindness" and having the results of such choices thrown in your face, isn't something that I'd like to have; That becoming blasé over the aforementioned isn't something I'd want; That the mechanics of the game, while early 90's-excellent, eventually wear down after 31 game-days of play; That I don't think that a tub-full of Haagen Dasz is a good thing... I'd say fuck that.

As far as I care, owning up to the choices I made that bring me, the wife and kid to "safety" on the back of 409 (!) faceless souls and Jorji (oh, Jorji) leaves me more content that I ever would be with a Hollywood ending eked out of conditioning through repetition. And like with Cart Life, it's ingenuity isn't the least bit scratched by the fact I'll likely never touch it again. Sometimes, that is exactly what you need from a game. Too bad more people don't realize it. icon_drunk
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Blargh
Überkommando
Überkommando


Joined: 09 Nov 2003
Posts: 6324

PostPosted: Tue Aug 13, 2013 4:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

+1. I also agree.

Papers, Please certainly progressed impressively from beta. Delightfully, relentlessly bleak, yet overflowing with character. Oh, the bomb, the bomb ! Bloody serendipitous that the dependents only require food/heat every other day . . .

Also, have a 100% scientific migraine simulator.

Also-so, Tangiers has persevered. Woo.

K.K.O - Humble Bundle have gone balls deep with EA/Origin . . . Surreal. icon_drunk
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SenisterDenister
250 Posts til Somewhere
250 Posts til Somewhere


Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 2980
Location: Cackalackyland

PostPosted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 6:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

EA can kiss my black ass, I quit buying their games years ago.
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Tofu Man
Paparazzi
Paparazzi


Joined: 06 Jul 2010
Posts: 1078

PostPosted: Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:38 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Corporate Makeover: Extreme Arts Edition duckie
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