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 Fallout 3 is somewhat bland View next topic
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Wolfman Walt
Mamma's Gang member
Mamma's Gang member


Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Posts: 5169
Location: La Grange, Kentucky

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Manoil wrote:
And not accepting that Fallout 3 has happened is just a state of denial; hold your eyes closed as long as you want, the raindrops have already hit the ground whether or not you watched it happen.


You...don't understand sarcasm well...do you?
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Manoil
Wastelander's Nightmare
Wastelander's Nightmare


Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 3643
Location: Behind your Chair

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 8:33 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Believe it or not, there are people who literally think like that, in behavioral psych. I didn't catch the sarcasm until just now.

You'd be suprised, but it's a helluva lot more obvious with voice, rather than text.

Or, maybe I just wasn't paying enough attention. Either one.
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Superhaze
Hero of the Desert
Hero of the Desert


Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1691
Location: Far north

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 3:42 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Not enough smileys. Che
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CloudNineGT
Striding Hero
Striding Hero


Joined: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 1284
Location: Naked

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 4:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Manoil wrote:
Believe it or not, there are people who literally think like that, in behavioral psych.

The reason I simply could not handle psych classes. Too aggravating.
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Manoil
Wastelander's Nightmare
Wastelander's Nightmare


Joined: 22 Feb 2006
Posts: 3643
Location: Behind your Chair

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

CloudNineGT wrote:
Manoil wrote:
Believe it or not, there are people who literally think like that, in behavioral psych.

The reason I simply could not handle psych classes. Too aggravating.
You are in a state of denial; you couldn't keep up, so you blame the field, not yourself.

LOLOL JUST KIDDING BUDDEH
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Edward_R_Murrow
Vault Dweller
Vault Dweller


Joined: 26 Aug 2007
Posts: 120

PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 9:37 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Every game series needs to advance with the times. Final Fantasy, Metroid, Half Life, Donkey Kong, and Resident Evil all did, and look how popular they are. Why not Fallout?


Yo son, this is one of the biggest fallacies out there. Let's run it down shall we?

Final Fantasy? Please. It was a shit Wizardry clone from the beginning where it had some of the worst design flaws in the first (AD&D style casting coupled with hundreds of random encounters in dungeons making mages very weak to name one) to number twelve where the gameplay gimmick is fucking macroing the game to play for you. Shit city.

Metroid? This is interesting. Play Super Metroid. Then play Prime. Notice something? Core gameplay elements weren't axed in the transition to 3d. You still travel around, find items, fight enemies, and explore a semi-linear area with one end goal. Fallout 3 axes a huge part of Fallout's design goals just to shoehorn Oblivion in. It would be like if Retro took item collecting and exploring out of Prime and made it a linear, stage-based, Halo clone. Same general idea applies to Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, and such. They may have added more modern features, but didn't kill the classic design formulae that made the games what they were.

Half-Life? How did that "advance"? If anything, HL2 took a great shooter formula and fucked it by not designing awesome enemies, shoving pseudo-cutscenes down the player's throat with Alyx and locked doors, and the goddamn gimmick gun and all the stupid physics puzzles that totally broke the pace of gameplay.

Funny you mention Resident Evil. Number 4 is reviled by a lot of fans for abandoning any "survival" aspects in favor of giving the player lots of guns, ammo, and stuff to easily kill.

Old games can become modernized without sacrificing what made them great in the first place. I'd love a Jagged Alliance 3 with a full physics engine for shrapnel, destructible environments, and more aiming detail. Throw in lighting, and a rotatable 3d camera to be able to size up cover and visibility better and you'd be on your way to making a beast of a strategy title. Maybe even add vehicles.

But for crying out loud, don't just gut the designs which made the classics...well...classics.
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rad resistance
Striding Hero
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Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:01 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Edward how dare you talk shit about Half-Life 2.
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St. Toxic
Haha you're still not there yet
Haha you're still not there yet


Joined: 31 Dec 2004
Posts: 3362
Location: One-man religion.

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 12:22 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Half-Life 2 is pretty shitty. It's pretty much like a top-budget tv-series aimed at teens, based off of an obscure cult classic. As with Oblivion, the physics and the post processing effects in HL2 managed to trick the minds of the weak, into thinking that they had gotten a quality product. If you had fun with it, obviously nobody can take that away, but it's still a deeply flawed game and does not deserve the praise it gets.
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MedicPowerArmor
SDF!
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Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:43 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

St. toxic, First you badmouth Fallout 3, but now you talk shit about Half-Life? You have no soul.
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MedicPowerArmor
SDF!
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Joined: 22 Jan 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 5:49 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Edward_R_Murrow wrote:
MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Every game series needs to advance with the times. Final Fantasy, Metroid, Half Life, Donkey Kong, and Resident Evil all did, and look how popular they are. Why not Fallout?


Yo son, this is one of the biggest fallacies out there. Let's run it down shall we?

Final Fantasy? Please. It was a shit Wizardry clone from the beginning where it had some of the worst design flaws in the first (AD&D style casting coupled with hundreds of random encounters in dungeons making mages very weak to name one) to number twelve where the gameplay gimmick is fucking macroing the game to play for you. Shit city.

Metroid? This is interesting. Play Super Metroid. Then play Prime. Notice something? Core gameplay elements weren't axed in the transition to 3d. You still travel around, find items, fight enemies, and explore a semi-linear area with one end goal. Fallout 3 axes a huge part of Fallout's design goals just to shoehorn Oblivion in. It would be like if Retro took item collecting and exploring out of Prime and made it a linear, stage-based, Halo clone. Same general idea applies to Mario, Zelda, Donkey Kong, and such. They may have added more modern features, but didn't kill the classic design formulae that made the games what they were.

Half-Life? How did that "advance"? If anything, HL2 took a great shooter formula and fucked it by not designing awesome enemies, shoving pseudo-cutscenes down the player's throat with Alyx and locked doors, and the goddamn gimmick gun and all the stupid physics puzzles that totally broke the pace of gameplay.

Funny you mention Resident Evil. Number 4 is reviled by a lot of fans for abandoning any "survival" aspects in favor of giving the player lots of guns, ammo, and stuff to easily kill.

Old games can become modernized without sacrificing what made them great in the first place. I'd love a Jagged Alliance 3 with a full physics engine for shrapnel, destructible environments, and more aiming detail. Throw in lighting, and a rotatable 3d camera to be able to size up cover and visibility better and you'd be on your way to making a beast of a strategy title. Maybe even add vehicles.

But for crying out loud, don't just gut the designs which made the classics...well...classics.


I happen to be a Final Fantasy Uber fan. Final Fantasy is the basis of many modern RPGs. Final Fantasy 7 is still in the top 50. (last I checked.)

Metroid, well, you have me there.

Half life. That happens to be one of the biggest games out there right now, and physics is one of the things that make it great.

Resident Evil. It is always a classic, I don't care how good Left 4 Dead is. However, i will agree with #4, they ruined that.
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VasikkA
No more Tuna
No more Tuna


Joined: 15 Jun 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:20 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Final Fantasy is the basis of many modern RPGs.

Name a few.

Quote:
Final Fantasy 7 is still in the top 50. (last I checked.)

Says who?
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Superhaze
Hero of the Desert
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1691
Location: Far north

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:28 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I found FF7 to be a breath of fresh air, say.. back in the OMG 3d wtf? days before I got jaded by drugs and self-loathing. Cyberpunk is always a good setting for games. Gameplay wise it wassnt much to brag about but I still have fond memories of playing it when I was a wee kid. I wont dare replay it though because I fear I will rape my childhood memories.
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Wolfman Walt
Mamma's Gang member
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Joined: 15 Mar 2003
Posts: 5169
Location: La Grange, Kentucky

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:48 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

VasikkA wrote:
MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Final Fantasy is the basis of many modern RPGs.

Name a few.


I'm pretty sure there's a database of every JRPG made during the SNES era to get started. Now Western RPGs.....that might be more difficult.
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Superhaze
Hero of the Desert
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 1691
Location: Far north

PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 8:57 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

And lets be honest here.. jRPGs and western rpgs have nothing in common except for the name. Different games for different people.
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Retlaw83
Goatse Messiah
Goatse Messiah


Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 5288

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 12:04 am Reply with quoteBack to top

MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Resident Evil. It is always a classic, I don't care how good Left 4 Dead is. However, i will agree with #4, they ruined that.


Left 4 Dead is a run-and-gun gore splattering extravaganza. The only scary bits are when you realize you have 13 assault rifle rounds left and the tank music starts up.
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rad resistance
Striding Hero
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Joined: 17 Dec 2008
Posts: 1431
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 2:38 am Reply with quoteBack to top

MedicPowerArmor you use Final Fantasy for a basis on all your RPGs. Are you fucking kidding?
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Retlaw83
Goatse Messiah
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Joined: 17 Jul 2004
Posts: 5288

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 3:34 am Reply with quoteBack to top

rad resistance wrote:
MedicPowerArmor you use Final Fantasy for a basis on all your RPGs. Are you fucking kidding?


With Fallout 3 and Oblivion, you're not holding the bar much higher.
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Kashluk
Grand MF
Grand MF


Joined: 15 May 2003
Posts: 7512

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:07 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Superhaze wrote:
Wolfman Walt wrote:
VasikkA wrote:
MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Final Fantasy is the basis of many modern RPGs.

Name a few.
I'm pretty sure there's a database of every JRPG made during the SNES era to get started. Now Western RPGs.....that might be more difficult.

And lets be honest here.. jRPGs and western rpgs have nothing in common except for the name. Different games for different people.


Exactly. qfe
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Dogmeatlives
Living Legend
Living Legend


Joined: 27 Feb 2006
Posts: 3173
Location: Junktown, Phil's doorstep

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 6:36 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Kashluk wrote:
Superhaze wrote:
Wolfman Walt wrote:
VasikkA wrote:
MedicPowerArmor wrote:
Final Fantasy is the basis of many modern RPGs.

Name a few.
I'm pretty sure there's a database of every JRPG made during the SNES era to get started. Now Western RPGs.....that might be more difficult.

And lets be honest here.. jRPGs and western rpgs have nothing in common except for the name. Different games for different people.


Exactly. qfe


wtf are you people blathering about?! If FO3 is so bland add some fucking salt, pepper, or paprika! Problemsolvedfuckers!
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confound
Scarf-wearing n00b
Scarf-wearing n00b


Joined: 11 Feb 2009
Posts: 36
Location: Ol' Timey Radio Land

PostPosted: Wed Feb 11, 2009 5:58 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think the blandness comes from Bethesda's theory that what you see should convey everything that you would normally get from narration (I remember some Beth guy saying this in an interview when asked if F3 would have a scrolling narration window).

Part of the reason most of us love F1/2 is from the narration and descriptions, which added a lot of the humor and color to the fairly repetitive images of the F1/2 world. I'm loving the F3 item descriptions mod and wishing someone would make a scrolling info/narration window mod for F3.

Beth overestimated their ability to deliver story/mood through visuals. I think the story conveyed by my current character is that she was born as some sort of deformed hermaphrodite because she has huge man-hands and a really long left arm.
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