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Talion
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 11:37 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Got some random questions that have popped up while working on my campaign.

1) Doors. If you want a locked door to bu un lockpickable, what is the Chance setting? 0? -1? Also, in general, how does the Chance setting work with the lockpick skill?

2) Bloody Tiles. In mission 3 (Raider fortress) there are tiles that are just pools of blood and guts. Where are these tiles? The editor identifies them as Generic_Object_Wood tiles but they are definitely not in the Generic Objects file. I have the American version if thats at all relevant.

3) SinglePayerSpawns. What does putting a tag name on a SPSpawn do? Does it limit the player allowed to spawn there? For example if I tag my SPSpawn "Spawn1," will a non-tagged PC spawn there? Or does the tag simply allow me to move spawns(which is what I'm hoping for)? If anyone has experimented with spawns, please let me know the results.

4) Triggers. If I want two different missions to take place on the same map, in the same campaign (but not on the same visit), how should I work the triggers? "Nuke triggers on exit" removes everything, correct? Does checking "Preserve" withstand a "nuke triggers?" Or can I somehow single out which triggers will remain?

Any help would be appreciated. And for any who care, I've gotten a lot of progress done recently. If I dont have any luck in my job search, I could have the campaign done before too long.

- Talion.
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Max-Violence
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
Posts: 1221
Location: In my own personal vault

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 12:05 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Talion wrote:
1) Doors. If you want a locked door to [be] un lockpickable, what is the Chance setting? 0? -1? Also, in general, how does the Chance setting work with the lockpick skill?


There's some debate over which make the door harder to pick - higher or lower numbers. I've found (and the readme states) that the higher the numbers are, the harder it is to pick. Some others (JJ86 comes to mind) have found the opposite.

However, it's known for a fact that if you Lock a door and uncheck "Lockable" that the door will, in fact, NOT be "pickable." The error message, "Does Nothing" appears over the actor's head when he/she uses the lockpick skill on it. Note that if you uncheck Lockable, unselect the door entity, then reselect it, Lockable will appear to be checked still (well, it does for me, anyway). Not to worry, it still isn't Lockable smile

I should also add that if a door isn't Lockable, and it is unlocked via trigger, the door will in fact be unlocked. So, having a door that's "unLockable" only affects the actors' actions, not triggers (which is a VERY GOOD THING! :mrgreen:)

Talion wrote:
2) Bloody Tiles. In mission 3 (Raider fortress) there are tiles that are just pools of blood and guts. Where are these tiles? The editor identifies them as Generic_Object_Wood tiles but they are definitely not in the Generic Objects file. I have the American version if thats at all relevant.


Wasteland -> Objects -> JailCell -> BloodyRoom

Talion wrote:
3) SinglePayerSpawns. What does putting a tag name on a SPSpawn do? Does it limit the player allowed to spawn there? For example if I tag my SPSpawn "Spawn1," will a non-tagged PC spawn there? Or does the tag simply allow me to move spawns(which is what I'm hoping for)? If anyone has experimented with spawns, please let me know the results.


I've only used a single, non-tagged SpawnGeneric for my spawning needs, so I can't help ya there. I know that if you Tag a spawn, it can be used in a trigger (I used a Center View action on it, and it worked). Not sure if/why you'd want to use a Move Unit action on a spawn entity...

Talion wrote:
4) Triggers. If I want two different missions to take place on the same map, in the same campaign (but not on the same visit), how should I work the triggers? "Nuke triggers on exit" removes everything, correct? Does checking "Preserve" withstand a "nuke triggers?" Or can I somehow single out which triggers will remain?


Notta clue on this one, sorry. I wouldn't think you could specify which triggers to nuke and which to save, but I'm just guessin' here. But, if Preserve overrides Nuke Triggers on Exit, then yes, you can, but the Preserved trigger will ALWAYS be able to happen more than once, regardless whether or not you want it to. I know that one can save triggers (as a .trg file), but that won't help you with this problem.

This is a damn good question for Section8 to answer... he's a mapper :mrgreen:
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Talion
SDF!
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 12:46 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

Thanks for the responses Max-V.

Quote:
Wasteland -> Objects -> JailCell -> BloodyRoom


No, these arent the tiles I'm referring to. The ones I'm referring to are simply pools of blood and guts, not floor or wall tiles and not the hooks, bodies, barrels or any of the bloody objects.

Open up mission3 and go to the building inside the raider fort where there appears to be a torture chamber. Theres an industrial gate making the south wall of the building with a bunch of chairs outside the building (apparently torture is a spectators' sport). There are industrial assembly line arms over a table in the building with lots of blood and guts around.

Quote:
Not sure if/why you'd want to use a Move Unit action on a spawn entity...


Because I want the player to visit a map twice and spawn at different places each visit.
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RawonaM
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Joined: 19 May 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jun 17, 2002 6:12 pm Reply with quoteBack to top

I think The pools are in:
Wasteland -> Objects -> JailCell -> BloodyRoom -> BloodyWalls

While they propably should be in the objects folder rather.
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Talion
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Joined: 15 May 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:02 am Reply with quoteBack to top

RawonaM wrote:
I think The pools are in
Wasteland -> Objects -> JailCell -> BloodyRoom -> BloodyWalls


Yep, thats what I'm looking for. Thanks.

Definitely not the smartest place to hide those. I checked the Objects and Floors folders expecting it to be in there.

Sorry Max-V, I should've checked again when you mentioned that directory. I never looked in the walls folder because, for the life of me, I have no idea why pools of blood are considered walls.

OK, more questions:

5. Doors again. The large raider doors that are opened by a switch (also in mission 3): Can these be closed again and relocked?

6. Object Script States. I've never been sure about how to use these. Can I use them to accomplish the door relocking mentioned above? I know someone has written a detailed explanation of script states. Anyone know where I can find it?

7. Prefab Characters. If you make a prefab character and give it a tagname, will that tagname work in a campaign? Max-V have you played around with this? The way you assigned characters in Rebellion made me wonder. Also OTB mentioned that the Skill Used Condition only works if your character has a tagname. So, can we simply make a prefab character, give it a tagname and instruct players to either take a prefab character or modify it? Will the tagname stick? That could be very useful for scripting conversations. I'd test this myself except Im not certain how to get a full campaign running yet. I've spent too much time tiling and scripting and not enough experimenting. icon_confused2

- Talion
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Max-Violence
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 5:55 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Talion wrote:
5. Doors again. The large raider doors that are opened by a switch (also in mission 3): Can these be closed again and relocked?


Yep. In fact, I use the same doors you're talking about in Rebellion3, and I've a switch that unlocks and opens the doors when used, and closes then locks the doors when used a second time, using Object Script State conditions/actions (see below).

Talion wrote:
6. Object Script States. I've never been sure about how to use these. Can I use them to accomplish the door relocking mentioned above? I know someone has written a detailed explanation of script states. Anyone know where I can find it?


I don't remember anyone writing a "detailed explaination" of OSS's but I can explain 'em right here if ya want icon_mrhappy

OSS's are actually quite simple - if the box is checked, that means "when the Tagged entity is "activated" (in the case when dealing with switches) or "opened" (in the case with doors or containers)". If the box isn't checked, that means "when the Tagged entity is "off" (with switches) or "closed" (with doors, containers).

OSS can also be used with automated turret entities, but I've yet to use any in my maps (aside from the ones in DD Ch2 that aren't "alive"), so I can't comment on those. I would think if the box is checked for a turret, the turret "turns on" and "turns off" when the box isn't checked. IIRC OTB played around with turrets...

Finally, you can also use OSS to set off Tagged mines, remote bombs, TNT, etc. Check the box in an Action to set the explosive off :twisted:

Also, if you use the OSS of mines or bombs in a Condition, you can have Actions that happen when the explosive in question "does its thang."

And example of a switch unlocking and opening a door, and the same switch closing and locking the same door:

Open the door:

CONDITION:

Object Script State of 'Door_Switch' (box checked)

ACTION:

Lock/Unlock Door 'Front_Gate' (box NOT checked)
Set Object Script State of Front_Gate (checked)

Close the door:

CONDITION:

Object Script State of 'Door_Switch' (box unchecked)

ACTION:

Set Object Script State of Front_Gate (unchecked)
Lock/Unlock Door 'Front_Gate' (checked)

Remember to check Preserve for both triggers, else the door will only be able to be opened/closed once in the map! Laughing REALLY FUCKING HARD

Note that you should lock the door while the door is open (add a Lock/Unlock door action after the second action of the "open the door" trigger and before the first action of the "close the door" trigger). If you don't, the PCs can "use" the door, it'll close, then open right back up (since the switch is activated).

Talion wrote:
7. Prefab Characters. If you make a prefab character and give it a tagname, will that tagname work in a campaign? Max-V have you played around with this? The way you assigned characters in Rebellion made me wonder. Also OTB mentioned that the Skill Used Condition only works if your character has a tagname. So, can we simply make a prefab character, give it a tagname and instruct players to either take a prefab character or modify it? Will the tagname stick? That could be very useful for scripting conversations. I'd test this myself except Im not certain how to get a full campaign running yet. I've spent too much time tiling and scripting and not enough experimenting. icon_confused2


Yep. If you assign an actor a Tag Name and don't directly place the entity in the map, the Tag name will stick. However, it won't appear in the level editor automatically, so you need to manually type it in. That said, you should try to make your Tag names as easy to remember and spell as possible.

Unfortunately for me, I goofed up with Rebellion so I can't make conversations involving the PCs in Rebellion2 onward the way I'd like to (like I did in Rebellion1), but that shouldn't discourage you :mrgreen:
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Talion
SDF!
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Joined: 15 May 2002
Posts: 12

PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:40 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Max-Violence wrote:
I've a switch that unlocks and opens the doors when used, and closes then locks the doors when used a second time, using Object Script State conditions/actions (see below).


Thanks again, Max-V.

This invovles that map I want visited twice. The player will start the first mission inside the door so I need the door to start open or be openable. Then, on the second visit, the door should be closed and locked because I want the player to figure out how to get back in.

Your OSS explanation was great, but how do I make the door close/relock without having the player throw the switch again?


I tested that prefab thing and it worked for me. This will be great, I can reinclude all my detailed conversations (and a few really bad jokes) in my campaign. Also the player can modify the prefab character so we dont have to worry about limiting the player's gameplay/character type choices.
I dont know why we all werent doing the prefab thing from the beginning. Does OTB know about that? He seemed upset about the Skill Use Occured thing but he can use this method to make it functional.

This will also make gender specific dialogue easier. I've decided to do this:
Make 4 prefabs, 2 male, 2 female. All will be tagged "player." The 2 females will have an item tagged "female." When the first map starts, I'll have a campaign variable set to cvar_male = true. Then a condition will look for the item tagged "female." If it's there, the cvar will change to false. I'll then use the cvar on all maps to switch gender specific speech nodes to those designed for female players. I think this will add a good deal of depth to the game. Tell me if this doesnt sound right.

- Talion.
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Max-Violence
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Joined: 18 Apr 2002
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 18, 2002 7:49 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Talion wrote:
how do I make the door close/relock without having the player throw the switch again?


Simply use a different trigger. For example, if you want the door to close and lock at the end of the map, add the "close the door" actions to whatever trigger you have that has the "All alive at exit grid" condition (or however you do your debriefings).

However, you'll also have to throw in an Action in this "end of the map" trigger to set the OSS of the switch to "off." Otherwise, the door will open right back up after your "end of the map" trigger goes off (since the door might be open when the trigger goes off, and that means the switch is "on," and that means the door will be open until the switch goes "off").

Just be sure all this stuff is executed BEFORE the actors leave the map - I'm not sure (and I don't think so) if the map can be changed without it being the current map (i.e. if the player is on the World Map screen, headed back to the bunker or whatever).

Your idea of gender-specific dialogue sounds pretty neat, and I'm *this* close to asking you for an ETA on your campaign :mrgreen:
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Max-Violence
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PostPosted: Thu Jun 20, 2002 7:08 am Reply with quoteBack to top

Oh, and it was OTB himself who discovered that Tag names "stick" in the first place :mrgreen:
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