Tell us how much you hate BIS!

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Wed Jun 05, 2002 3:12 am

Black Isle Studios.

I don't actually hate BIS, but I do think they should have paid a bit more attention to detail when they made the game. And not have had all the real world weapons. In FO1, it was a generic assault rifle, a generic hunting rifle, etc. Another realism issue I have is that there is no way in hell that the low tech wasteland peoples would have been able to recreate an H&K G11 from stories passed down from their elders, who were most likely civilians anyway. So they should have just kept the generic titles, or the AK-112 or whatever assault rifle from FO1.

Not to mention that there were many broken quests, and things that were not implemented. Although the only version I have, and have ever had, of FO2 was the fully patched version, there were still some items that did not work, such as the one version of the FN FAL, I can't remember. And other bugs plagued it as well. Over the hundreds of hours I have logged playing the game, I have had have a dozen corrupted save files. That, and not the fear of screwing up, was what led me to using all the save files in a single game. Once, a single back up file from ten minutes earlier was all that was between me and six hours wasted.

Some developers just don't care what they are working for.

Richy · Post by **Richy** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:06 pm

Slave_Master wrote: there is no way in hell that the low tech wasteland peoples would have been able to recreate an H&K G11 from stories passed down from their elders

yes, agreed. and all of this plasma tech bullshit.... one would think that places like the enclave and BOS would be looking towards creating a better future for themselves and others instead of creaing WEAPONS. which, it a situation similar to the one portrayed in the game, would be exactly what would be being done.

Sc0pE · Post by **Sc0pE** » Sat Jun 08, 2002 1:13 pm

regardless of the fact that some of BIS's games were unrealistic, they are still only games and BIS has made some really good games...

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:39 am

You know, threads like this are totally stupid. You guys scream for Fallout 3, and yet continue to do nothing but rip the company that can make it. If I were Black Isle, I'd never touch Fallout again - they'll never please the self annointed "diehards", yet Fallout isn't enough of a mass market game to succeed without them. You'll end up getting what you deserve - nothing. Hope this makes everyone happy.

Grifman

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Sun Jun 09, 2002 10:57 pm

Vikjunk wrote: Saint,

I got it!!! The FEV mutated the FEV!!!

Vik, you have reached the level of True Avellone Enlightment with your profound wisdom! FEV... Explains itself!

I'm not worthy! I'm not worthy!

This is Gonna Hurt wrote:If you have so many problems with the game, don't play it....and it's a bloody game, that means it doesn't have to be completely accurate. You can carry a friggin' minigun around and use it in fallout, too. No one seems to complain about the impossibility of that. (And yes, it is impossible, every minigun you've seen in the movies is just that, a movie prop, minus about 200 lbs+ of necessary equipment).

You seem to be confusing reality and reality within the setting. Of course, Tank's post did that a bit as well.

Within the setting of Fallout, you can carry around miniguns with the right strength. However, you can't just take something like FEV and change it to meet the plot on a whim because there have already been established "Facts" about what FEV is.

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 1:41 am

Grifman wrote:You know, threads like this are totally stupid. You guys scream for Fallout 3, and yet continue to do nothing but rip the company that can make it. If I were Black Isle, I'd never touch Fallout again - they'll never please the self annointed "diehards", yet Fallout isn't enough of a mass market game to succeed without them. You'll end up getting what you deserve - nothing. Hope this makes everyone happy.

Grifman

No, the reason why we "hate" BIS is because Interplay made Fallout. Fallout was a great game, and had a nearly airtight plot that made sense. Now, BIS cane along and made Fallout 2, and they didn't give a damn what they were working with. They were too lazy to go back and play Fallout 1, and when it was released the game was buggy as hell, because the designers spent all their time implenting "clever" pop culture references instead of doing anything that even qualify as testing. Not to mention that they threw realism out the window and totally forgot about the Fallout setting from the first game.

So that's why we "hate" BIS. If they made a FO3 that wasn't a spiritual successor to FO2, then I think we would be happy. But that hasn't happened yet. And, Fallout 2 was a fun game, if totally patched. But it did not live up to the original, and BIS made no apparent attempt to.

EDIT: That's supposed to be t3sting, not testing

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 7:42 am

Grifman wrote:You know, threads like this are totally stupid. You guys scream for Fallout 3, and yet continue to do nothing but rip the company that can make it. If I were Black Isle, I'd never touch Fallout again - they'll never please the self annointed "diehards", yet Fallout isn't enough of a mass market game to succeed without them. You'll end up getting what you deserve - nothing. Hope this makes everyone happy.

I would be perfectly happy if they never made another Fallout game as opposed to making a shitty one or it ended up being a license of cardboard cut out spin offs where the name "Fallout" was slapped on in order to make a mediocre product sell more due to name recognition.

Anyone else think Star Wars would have been better if they'd stopped at Return of the Jedi? Same thing.

Slave_Master wrote:So that's why we "hate" BIS. If they made a FO3 that wasn't a spiritual successor to FO2, then I think we would be happy. But that hasn't happened yet. And, Fallout 2 was a fun game, if totally patched. But it did not live up to the original, and BIS made no apparent attempt to.

Right, Fallout's been given the shaft by Interplay and BIS. Since Fallout, we've gotten two incredibly buggy games which were progressively worse. It seems that so far, "Fallout" is nothing more than a name to toss around in order to sell games.

Fallout Tactics was a game that was pitched to Interplay by Micro Forte as "Chimera". Interplay basically counter-pitched Fallout Tactics to Micro Forte if they wanted the contract. Slap on an incredibly short dev time, an inexperienced development team, lackluster support from Interplay about what Fallout is, etc., and you have the recipe for disaster that was Fallout Tactics.

What's even more of a slap in the face is that Fallout is apparently good enough pitch other products. Who will forget such lines as "TORN is the game Fallout fans have wanted since Fallout 2."? How about the number of times Fallout is mentioned on the Lionheart page?

It's creepy.

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:07 am

Right, Prov. I am sick of how the Fallout name is just used to sell other products now. It's a damn shame. Then again, one could say that it get Interplay more money, but that still doesn't take away our right to be pissed. IMO, the reason the early games were so good was because the developers were making the game with every fiber of their being. It was their dream to make the games. And they wanted to make the fans happy. But of course, all industries become jaded and it becomes all about cash instead of love of the job. Major league baseball, anyone?

Rat Keeng · Post by **Rat Keeng** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 9:50 pm

Slave_Master wrote:But of course, all industries become jaded and it becomes all about cash instead of love of the job. Major league baseball, anyone?

How about every single sport that people will pay to watch? It's the same thing with most music today, some "music-experts" watches 5000 people, and pick out 5 of them to make a band. It is such a joke.

If IP decides to make Fallout 3, they should do their best to make it one hell of a game. First Fallout 2, then Fallout Tactics, so by not making Fallout 3, Fallout will live on and be remembered by most people as those two games. If they could manage to put together a proper Fallout 3, there would be much less anger towards them.

Slave_Master · Post by **Slave_Master** » Mon Jun 10, 2002 11:12 pm

Yes, Rat Keeng, we can only hope that Feargus removes Tab A (his head) From Slot B (his ass) and finally figures out that making the game in 3d so "the miniguns look really freaking cool" is a dumb idea and not what the fans want. But of course, if Interplay decides that the above idea will make them more money, then FO3 will complete shite.

Of course, they don't realize that they have such a large built-in fan base, a mistake made by George Lucas. What I'm saying is this:

Let's say there are a million Fallout fans. US, International, the whole world, anything. Just a million. And each one of them would be willing to shell out $50 for an exceptional Fallout sequel, meaning that Interplay would be getting 50 million dollars, before taxes. So if they gave BIS a $20 million budget, which is a lot of money for a Fallout game, I would assume, they would still be making $30 million. Of course, one million fans willing to pay fifty bucks is a conservative estimate, to say the least.

Interplay would make millions of dollars world wide if they just gave money to BIS, told them to take however long it took, and to spend every wake hour of their lives making sure FO3 was perfect. Unfortunately most people don't realize this, and shovel out shite.

Of course, it could just be that they want to make a few more million, and they don't give a damn about the fans, as George Lucas has brilliantly shown.

Saint_Proverbius · Post by **Saint_Proverbius** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 12:53 am

Publishers only get about half of the price of a game. Retail outlets get the other half. $20,000,000 for a game budget is incredibly high as well. Most games that sell 100,000 units make a profit, albeit a slim one.

Fallout's sales numbers are pretty good, although they're not as great as BG's. Of course, there are reasons for this:

1.) Fallout had no copy protection at all.
2.) Fallout was totally unmarketted. There were a few ads in magazines, but nothing like the campaign BG had.
3.) Fallout wasn't recognisable at the time, AD&D is.
4.) There were less PCs in 1997
5.) Fallout wasn't your typical "Slay the evil wizard" RPG people are used to seeing.

Of course, Rat Keeng has a point about Fallout 2 and Fallout Tactics, but that point cuts both ways. How many people did FOT bring in to the "Fallout" universe? Probably quite a few because it was very well marketted. Then again, FOT was extremely buggy which pissed a lot of those people off. I'd say after FOT, a few of the people it drew in won't buy another Fallout title again after that.

king_ota · Post by **king_ota** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 4:56 am

go here
http://www.geocities.com/blast_game/bisdt.jpg

never mix WWII propaganda and a dislike for BIS

king_ota · Post by **king_ota** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 5:00 am

ack darn geocities! ignore that last note.

Rat Keeng · Post by **Rat Keeng** » Tue Jun 11, 2002 8:46 am

Copy and paste my friend, copy and paste...

king_ota · Post by **king_ota** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 2:55 am

yea just copy and paste the link (darn that geocities and its TOS grrr....)

Mr Carrot · Post by **Mr Carrot** » Wed Jun 12, 2002 8:06 am

Who the hell made that, utterly brilliant!

king_ota · Post by **king_ota** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:02 am

The pict? I did (and thanks)

(btw I have tooo much fun in photoshop

)

Kashluk · Post by **Kashluk** » Thu Jun 13, 2002 7:53 pm

Hee-laa-ree-ous!!!

STOP B.I.S !